David Eduardo wrote:


"Monty Hall" wrote in message
...



These broadcasters are insane to do things like HD/IBOC to restrict
and limit their already-dwindling audiences. They should be working
to INCREASE their coverage area and listenership; not reduce it.


The only coverage that counts is in their home markets.

DX listeners don't count in the business model.


They never have since the early 50's.


What is your understanding of the market coverage for clear channel WCCO 830
during the 1960s and into the mid 1980s? During all of that time, as a listener,
I heard them advertising to a Minnesota state-wide and upper midwest area market
during the day and national spots were common at night. They even promoted their
clear channel status and nationwide focus on each ID. Programming was always
wide-area oriented and rarely was restricted to the Mpls/St.Paul metro. Everyone
over the entire state regarded it as a cherished voice of a people and region,
and the station widely promoted that image with various state-wide awards,
outreach programs, frequent remotes, etc. Its changes in recent decades are
still lamented by older listeners, and I would appreciate knowing if any
other clear channels were held in the high regard, as an institution, that
was WCCO. Folks of a certain age in our area still wax nostalgic about WGN,
WBBN and others, but none of them held as much importance as WCCO to folks
in our five state area.

Michael

David Eduardo wrote:

"Dave" wrote in message
m...
David Eduardo wrote:


And the manager recalls it was always Villa Acuña, Coahuila, México
for his tenure, which ended around 1972.

The manager is mistaken. The ID quoted here is the one I remember.


You are amusing. Your recollection, reinforced by a book that is just
chock full of errors, is better than the word of the guy who lived at
the station for about 12 years, negotiated with the town, and handled
all the licensing requirements.

Many DXers from the 60's have the XERF verie letter signed by Sergio
Ballesteros.

That's all well and good, but I remember hearing the IDs and the
"see-you-dad" pronunciation by Mr. Kallinan was quite unmistakable. How
come you never listened?

"msg" wrote in message
ernet...
David Eduardo wrote:


"Monty Hall" wrote in message
...



These broadcasters are insane to do things like HD/IBOC to restrict
and limit their already-dwindling audiences. They should be working to
INCREASE their coverage area and listenership; not reduce it.


The only coverage that counts is in their home markets.

DX listeners don't count in the business model.


They never have since the early 50's.


What is your understanding of the market coverage for clear channel WCCO
830
during the 1960s and into the mid 1980s? During all of that time, as a
listener,
I heard them advertising to a Minnesota state-wide and upper midwest area
market
during the day and national spots were common at night.

The daytime coverage is groundwave, not DX.

That a spot be for a national client does not mean it is intended to be
heard nationally on a single station. In fact, on a CBS affiliate like WCCO,
the dead night commercial time was often used to run the network spots that
they had to clear as part of the affiliation agreement. Paid national spots,
with few exceptions, have not been the rule at night on AM's since TV took
over most of the night audience.

They even promoted their
clear channel status and nationwide focus on each ID. Programming was
always
wide-area oriented and rarely was restricted to the Mpls/St.Paul metro.
Everyone
over the entire state regarded it as a cherished voice of a people and
region,
and the station widely promoted that image with various state-wide awards,
outreach programs, frequent remotes, etc.

Again, not DX but normal, groundwave coverage. And, as I said, as each
community got more AMs and new FMs in the 60's, 70's and 80's, the need to
listen to a distant AM was reduced to near nothing.

Today, KTLK FM with a news talk format on FM has more under-55 listeners in
the Mppls. metro than WCCO. In Mamkato, St. Cloud and Rochester, wehre WCCO
used to have double digit shares, it is now not even in the top 15 in the
under-55 age group.... and that listening, such as it is, is almost all
daytime listening, too.

Its changes in recent decades are
still lamented by older listeners, and I would appreciate knowing if any
other clear channels were held in the high regard, as an institution, that
was WCCO.

Nearly all are or were... WSB, WBZ, KDKA, WTAM, KMOX, KOA, KFI, WBAP, WOAI,
WGN, etc., were enormously influential in the era when for many miles around
there were scant few stations. Today, AM is irrelevant for younger
listeners and there has been such an increase in stations that the need to
listen to distant AMs is fairly limited.

"Dave" wrote in message
m...
David Eduardo wrote:

"Dave" wrote in message
m...
David Eduardo wrote:


And the manager recalls it was always Villa Acuña, Coahuila, México for
his tenure, which ended around 1972.

The manager is mistaken. The ID quoted here is the one I remember.


You are amusing. Your recollection, reinforced by a book that is just
chock full of errors, is better than the word of the guy who lived at the
station for about 12 years, negotiated with the town, and handled all the
licensing requirements.

Many DXers from the 60's have the XERF verie letter signed by Sergio
Ballesteros.

That's all well and good, but I remember hearing the IDs and the
"see-you-dad" pronunciation by Mr. Kallinan was quite unmistakable. How
come you never listened?

I did not find the station particularly amusing or entertaining after first
discovering it in about 1958. By the early 60's, I was more interested in
stations like XEB and HJED, which I taped nightly to listen to the next day.
Far better music than the stuff on XERF.

In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

SNIP

Its changes in recent decades are still lamented by older
listeners, and I would appreciate knowing if any other clear
channels were held in the high regard, as an institution, that was
WCCO.

Nearly all are or were... WSB, WBZ, KDKA, WTAM, KMOX, KOA, KFI, WBAP,
WOAI, WGN, etc., were enormously influential in the era when for many
miles around there were scant few stations. Today, AM is irrelevant
for younger listeners and there has been such an increase in stations
that the need to listen to distant AMs is fairly limited.

I still do it. I listen to distant stations to hear programs that do
not air on local stations. I listen to KOGO almost every day or night.
Night time I listen to Bay area stations and KOH in Nevada on a regular
basis. For a while KABC was broadcasting that IBOC crap at night making
KOH unlistenable. Thankfully that stopped but I still can't listen to
them around sunset until that IBOC crap gets turned off for the night by
KABC.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

David Eduardo wrote:

"Dave" wrote in message
m...
David Eduardo wrote:

"Dave" wrote in message
m...
David Eduardo wrote:


And the manager recalls it was always Villa Acuña, Coahuila, México
for his tenure, which ended around 1972.

The manager is mistaken. The ID quoted here is the one I remember.


You are amusing. Your recollection, reinforced by a book that is just
chock full of errors, is better than the word of the guy who lived at
the station for about 12 years, negotiated with the town, and handled
all the licensing requirements.

Many DXers from the 60's have the XERF verie letter signed by Sergio
Ballesteros.

That's all well and good, but I remember hearing the IDs and the
"see-you-dad" pronunciation by Mr. Kallinan was quite unmistakable.
How come you never listened?

I did not find the station particularly amusing or entertaining after
first discovering it in about 1958. By the early 60's, I was more
interested in stations like XEB and HJED, which I taped nightly to
listen to the next day. Far better music than the stuff on XERF.

How abnormal.

On Jan 3, 8:02*pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"msg" wrote in message

ernet...



David Eduardo wrote:

"Monty Hall" wrote in message
...

These broadcasters are insane to do things like HD/IBOC to restrict
and limit their already-dwindling audiences. They should be working to
INCREASE their coverage area and listenership; not reduce it.

The only coverage that counts is in their home markets.

DX listeners don't count in the business model.

They never have since the early 50's.

What is your understanding of the market coverage for clear channel WCCO
830
during the 1960s and into the mid 1980s? *During all of that time, as a
listener,
I heard them advertising to a Minnesota state-wide and upper midwest area
market
during the day and national spots were common at night.

The daytime coverage is groundwave, not DX.

That a spot be for a national client does not mean it is intended to be
heard nationally on a single station. In fact, on a CBS affiliate like WCCO,
the dead night commercial time was often used to run the network spots that
they had to clear as part of the affiliation agreement. Paid national spots,
with few exceptions, have not been the rule at night on AM's since TV took
over most of the night audience.

*They even promoted their

clear channel status and nationwide focus on each ID. Programming was
always
wide-area oriented and rarely was restricted to the Mpls/St.Paul metro.
Everyone
over the entire state regarded it as a cherished voice of a people and
region,
and the station widely promoted that image with various state-wide awards,
outreach programs, frequent remotes, etc.

Again, not DX but normal, groundwave coverage. And, as I said, as each
community got more AMs and new FMs in the 60's, 70's and 80's, the need to
listen to a distant AM was reduced to near nothing.

Today, KTLK FM with a news talk format on FM has more under-55 listeners in
the Mppls. metro than WCCO. In Mamkato, St. Cloud and Rochester, wehre WCCO
used to have double digit shares, it is now not even in the top 15 in the
under-55 age group.... and that listening, such as it is, is almost all
daytime listening, too.

Its changes in recent decades are

still lamented by older listeners, and I would appreciate knowing if any
other clear channels were held in the high regard, as an institution, that
was WCCO.

- Nearly all are or were... WSB, WBZ, KDKA, WTAM,
- KMOX, KOA, KFI, WBAP, WOAI, WGN, etc., were
- enormously influential in the era when for many miles
- around there were scant few stations. *Today, AM is
- irrelevant for younger listeners and there has been
- such an increase in stations that the need to listen
- to distant AMs is fairly limited.

Things Have "Changed" in Radio Over the Last 50 Years :
# 1 FM Radio "IS" Now 'Local' Everywhere across the
Nation both Urban, Sub-Urban and Rural.
# 2 Plus the Vast Majority of Public, Educational and
Religious Broadcasting is on FM Radio.
# 3a The Number of FM Radio Stations is Much Greater
that AM Radio Stations.
# 3b The Number of FM Radio Listeners is Much Greater
that AM Radio Stations and they are Younger.
# 3c Most Importantly the Combined Revenues of FM
Radio Stations is Much Greater that AM Radio Stations.
Conclusion : AM Radio is no longer King-of-the-Air-Waves

FCC Data : AM and FM Broadcast Radio Station Totals

From a Year 1968 'base' of AM & FM Radio Stations
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/totals/pdf/19681231.pdf
AM Radio Stations : 4236 = 65%
FM Radio Stations : 1944 = 30%
EDU FM Radio Stations : 362 = 5%
Total Radio Stations : 6542 = 100%

Basically - Two-out-of-Three US Radio Stations
were AM back then.

Here is the latest FCC Data for AM and FM Broadcast
Radio Station Totals Licensed as of 30 June 2008 :
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/totals/bt080630.html
Total AM Radio Stations = 4,778 ~ 34%
Total FM Radio Stations = 6,382 ~ 45%
Total FM {Educational} PBS/NPR Radio Stations = 2,964 ~ 21%
[ Total FM Radio Stations = 9346 ~ 66% ]

TODAY - Two-out-of-Three US Radio Stations
are 'Local' FM Radio Stations.

GRAND TOTAL FOR ALL RADIO STATIONS = 14,124

PLUS - The [Hidden] Numbers :
FM Radio Stations Translators and Boosters = 6095
Low Power FM Radio Stations = 851
Bring the True {Real} Total FM Radio Stations = 16,292
Then the AM Radio Station Total : 4778 ~ 29%

THE REALITY IS - That the True Number Is
Seven-out-of-Ten US Radio Stations are in-fact
'Local' FM Radio Stations.

Presently in the SF Bay Area there are about 80 FM
Radio Stations to Listen-To : While there are only
20 AM Radio Stations on the Air.

Back when I was a Kid in High School the 1960s
I and my friends listened to AM Radio.

Today's Kids in High School Listen to FM Radio; and
their Celfones iPods and MP3 Plays 'may' have an
FM Radio feature -but- No AM Radio at all. You play
your iPod through your FM Radio in a Car.

yes many things have changed in the radio business
over the last 50 Years ~ RHF

On Jan 4, 9:47*am, Bob Dobbs wrote:
David Eduardo wrote:

"Monty Hall" wrote in message
...

These broadcasters are insane to do things like HD/IBOC to restrict and
limit their already-dwindling audiences. They should be working to
INCREASE their coverage area and listenership; not reduce it.

The only coverage that counts is in their home markets.

DX listeners don't count in the business model.

They never have since the early 50's.

- Your only experience with what counts depends on
- someone with extra time filling out a diary truthfully
- and having their circumstance being actually
- representative of a desirable demographic rather than
- the fantasy many of those people present as you do
- in this forum.
-
- --
-
- Operator Bob
- Echo Charlie 42

Do people over the age of 50 even get Diaries ?

To be counted ? ? ?

Or is that another sin of omission ? ? ?

"Bob Dobbs" wrote in message
news:4960f150.7883921@chupacabra...
David Eduardo wrote:

I'm talking about the 91.1 FM, and yes they did with a female voice.
She would say in spanish - "X E R A F M Tijuana Baja California Mexico"
If I had a time machine I could simply record it
but an argumentative twit like you aren't worth the trouble.

I know many people who worked in the market at the time, and all say that
the station never skipped the "T" particularly in the Spanish ID, which is
an element closely supervised by the SCOP (now SCT). Mexico has had much
stricter ID requirements than the US for many years.

Perhaps your Spanish was not good enough to catch the rapid flow of letters?

"Bob Dobbs" wrote in message
news:4962f4b8.8756359@chupacabra...
David Eduardo wrote:

After TV "arrived," meaning the two to three years after the freeze was
lifted, radio at night was barely listened to. So skywave reception (or
DXX
reception) became of little use as there were few listeners and fewer
advertisers.

That blatant lie
just goes to illustrate what an uninformed jerk you are

Evening listening, by the end of the 1955, was down to about 1/4 of the
daytime radio listening levels. While there are no national figures, looking
at a variety of local market reports supports this conclusion.

Add in the explosion of new stations in the decade after W.W. II, there was
less reason to listen to non-local stations at any time, and little reason
to listen to them at night.