On Mar 13, 4:55�pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"PocketRadio" wrote in message

...
On Mar 13, 3:12 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:

Sure, it takes more power. But the overall cost to a station is a tiny
fraction of a percent of its operating budget. Same goes for equipment. If
the cost is significant, 1) the station can not and won't be able to
compete
with better financed stations and, 2) the station should not consider HD.
HD
is for significant players in significant markets.

Nope - Citadel is rumored to be turning it off due to electrial costs.
Otherswill follow as they go Chapter-11.

You just made that lie up. No truth whatsoever.

Not me - it was posted on radiolists.

On Mar 13, 4:54�pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"PocketRadio" wrote in message

...
Oh, but I thought the "digital transition" was for everyone - wasn't
that the point of IBOC? Even the losers at iBiquity think the same way
- it's only for the Big Boys. So much for the "digital transition".
Even the Big Boys are turning it off, and won't be able to afford the
10db power boost. HD Radio is a bust. HD Radio is a scam. HD Radio
jams commnnity stations off the dial - but, that is the point of IBOC.
The Big Boys are the investors, and smaller stations can't afford this
useless "upgrade". Everyone has figured out that HD Radio is a scam
and that it is DOA.

HD is initially for the good signals in the better markets. That's where
most of the population lives.

And remember, in a typical market with 10 to 20 AM signals, an average of 2
are viable today. And as many as a third of the FMs in most markets are
limited or not viable, either.

There is no 10db power boost, as there has been no rulemaking. Just a
proposal. And lots of opposition form second adjacent in the same area...

"FCC Allows Stealth HD Power Boosts"

"Although the Federal Communications Commission has deferred (for now)
any formal action on its inquiry into whether or not to allow
broadcast radio stations to increase the power of their digital ('HD')
sidebands by a factor of ten, the agency's employing the tried and
true method of 'creating facts on the ground' by allowing individual
stations (or station clusters) to individually apply for special
temporary authority to hike their HD power levels. This is taking
place even though radio's engineering community is deeply divided on
the issue of an HD sideband power increase. Comments filed by the
Prometheus Radio Project and Media Access Project (disclaimer: on
which I informally consulted) succinctly summarize the dispute. The
main question is: is it realistically possible use HD Radio as a tool
to improve the existing medium, or will HD intentionally degrade it so
that the spectrum's repurposement becomes inevitable - or, at the very
least, make its ownership more consolidated?"

http://tinyurl.com/6vlmoo

A power boost will be approved - even Struble says so, because he in
in bed with the FCC. Too bad, no one will be able to afford it. It has
also been reported on Radio-Info, that another station has secretly
been granted approval. Struble will want to degrade analog slowly, so
that no one notices, and just like WYSL, the FCC will ignore
interference complaints.

On Mar 13, 4:54�pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"PocketRadio" wrote in message

...
Oh, but I thought the "digital transition" was for everyone - wasn't
that the point of IBOC? Even the losers at iBiquity think the same way
- it's only for the Big Boys. So much for the "digital transition".
Even the Big Boys are turning it off, and won't be able to afford the
10db power boost. HD Radio is a bust. HD Radio is a scam. HD Radio
jams commnnity stations off the dial - but, that is the point of IBOC.
The Big Boys are the investors, and smaller stations can't afford this
useless "upgrade". Everyone has figured out that HD Radio is a scam
and that it is DOA.

HD is initially for the good signals in the better markets. That's where
most of the population lives.

And remember, in a typical market with 10 to 20 AM signals, an average of 2
are viable today. And as many as a third of the FMs in most markets are
limited or not viable, either.

There is no 10db power boost, as there has been no rulemaking. Just a
proposal. And lots of opposition form second adjacent in the same area...

The RIAA already has over-the-air broadcast radio by the balls - the
royalties are eminent, so this will kill HD Radio - no listeners, no
ROI, only rising royalty payments. The FMs will have to flip to the
AMs' successful news/talk/sports formats - WLW, WSB, etc. are ranked
#1 in their markets - it is the music-oriented FMs that are in
trouble. No music on FMs - another reason for HD Radio not to exist.

On Mar 13, 4:55�pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"PocketRadio" wrote in message

...
On Mar 13, 3:12 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:

Sure, it takes more power. But the overall cost to a station is a tiny
fraction of a percent of its operating budget. Same goes for equipment. If
the cost is significant, 1) the station can not and won't be able to
compete
with better financed stations and, 2) the station should not consider HD.
HD
is for significant players in significant markets.

Nope - Citadel is rumored to be turning it off due to electrial costs.
Otherswill follow as they go Chapter-11.

You just made that lie up. No truth whatsoever.

BTW - the NAB has only the support of 135 House members, and less
than 25 in the Senate for the Local Radio Freedom Act, which would
have blocked the RIAA. Too bad, far from having any sort of majority-
vote. So Eduardo, what are the new news/talk/sports formats that
Univision will be putting on their FMs? LOL!

David Eduardo wrote:

Heck, every AM gets occasional interference; I recall numerous times
hearing Venezuela on 1-A Clear Channel 1100 in early evenings over WKYC
(now WTAM) even though I was about 12 miles from the WTAM transmitter.
That's one of the reasons AM has so little appeal to the generations
that grew up on FM... interference, noise, static, lousy audio quality.

Most people have no idea what "audio quality" means.

In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"PocketRadio" wrote in message
...
On Mar 13, 2:15 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
False - 90% of IBOC power is dumped.

The insertion loss depends on the combiner system. In cases of FM, using
separate antennae, there is no insertion loss. It's still a small amount,
any way you look at it. Tower obstruction lighting or AC consumption is
much
more.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"Linearized transmitters capable of passing the HD-R signal are of
necessity inefficient, often in the 30-40% range.
As such they take more electricity to operate. More power is wasted in
heat and more cooling is required. It can thus
cost three times as much to operate a linearized transmitter than a
nonlinearized transmitter with the same
TPO... Additional up-front costs are incurred for the injector and
reject load as well as the transmission
line parts to connect everything together.. year times 15 years.
Include the cost of additional cooling using the same
formula... Linearized transmitters capable of passing the HD-R signal
are of necessity inefficient, often in the 30-40% range. As such they
take more electricity to operate. More power is wasted in heat and
more cooling is required. It can thus cost three times as much to
operate a linearized transmitter than a nonlinearized..."

Sure, it takes more power. But the overall cost to a station is a tiny
fraction of a percent of its operating budget. Same goes for equipment. If
the cost is significant, 1) the station can not and won't be able to compete
with better financed stations and, 2) the station should not consider HD. HD
is for significant players in significant markets.

The power savings of digital modulation over analog are over stated at
best. Digital modulation also requires more transmitter capacity
(overhead) so a larger transmitter must be purchased.

The antenna and matching systems must be more broadband than they need
to be for analog transmission. Losses will be inherently larger.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

"dave" wrote in message
m...
David Eduardo wrote:

Heck, every AM gets occasional interference; I recall numerous times
hearing Venezuela on 1-A Clear Channel 1100 in early evenings over WKYC
(now WTAM) even though I was about 12 miles from the WTAM transmitter.
That's one of the reasons AM has so little appeal to the generations that
grew up on FM... interference, noise, static, lousy audio quality.

Most people have no idea what "audio quality" means.

They can certainly tell the difference between AM and FM. That is why nearly
nobody under 50 or 55 listens to AM.

wrote in message
...
On Mar 13, 11:21 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"dave" wrote in message

m...

David Eduardo wrote:

Heck, every AM gets occasional interference; I recall numerous times
hearing Venezuela on 1-A Clear Channel 1100 in early evenings over
WKYC
(now WTAM) even though I was about 12 miles from the WTAM transmitter.
That's one of the reasons AM has so little appeal to the generations
that
grew up on FM... interference, noise, static, lousy audio quality.

Most people have no idea what "audio quality" means.

They can certainly tell the difference between AM and FM. That is why
nearly
nobody under 50 or 55 listens to AM.

Eduardo - I live in Butler county, PA. WBZ has a very huge and
impressive signal here due to their very efficient antenna and ground
system in Boston. The adjacent noise created by their hd signal is
clearly and consistantly heard under KDKA amost every night. So, tell
me again why this is not a problem. It clealy is a problem to me.

KDKA is nearly dead, with an FM news talker beating it in the sales demos.
You are probably one of the few who cares.

And, if you are in the northern part of your county, you probably have the
first vestiges of skywave cancellation, which is more of a problem than WBZ
anyway.

WBZ has no more nor no less efficiency than any station with a 1/2 wave
tower system What is different is that BZ is directional, with nearly no
power to the east and a lot of it to the west.

On Mar 13, 11:35*pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
wrote in message

...



On Mar 13, 11:21 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"dave" wrote in message

news:avidnYpi3cWrgSbUnZ2dnUVZ_v7inZ2d@earthlink. com...

David Eduardo wrote:

Heck, every AM gets occasional interference; I recall numerous times
hearing Venezuela on 1-A Clear Channel 1100 in early evenings over
WKYC
(now WTAM) even though I was about 12 miles from the WTAM transmitter.
That's one of the reasons AM has so little appeal to the generations
that
grew up on FM... interference, noise, static, lousy audio quality.

Most people have no idea what "audio quality" means.

They can certainly tell the difference between AM and FM. That is why
nearly
nobody under 50 or 55 listens to AM.

Eduardo - I live in Butler county, PA. WBZ has a very huge and
impressive signal here due to their very efficient antenna and ground
system in Boston. *The adjacent noise created by their hd signal is
clearly and consistantly heard under KDKA amost every night. *So, tell
me again why this is not a problem. *It clealy is a problem to me.

KDKA is nearly dead, with an FM news talker beating it in the sales demos..
You are probably one of the few who cares.

And, if you are in the northern part of your county, you probably have the
first vestiges of skywave cancellation, which is more of a problem than WBZ
anyway.

- WBZ has no more nor no less efficiency than
- any station with a 1/2 wave tower system
- What is different is that BZ is directional,
- with nearly no power to the east
- and a lot of it to the west.

WBZ -info- RadioLocator & FCC
http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin...0&y=0&sr=Y&s=C
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/amq?list=0&facid=25444

WBZ Area of Coverage & WBZ View Coverage Map
http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin...atus=L&hours=U
-sort-of- Looks like more to the East
and less to the West.
-but- then again . . .
http://www.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Da...10513-5756.pdf

On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 22:15:36 +0900, Brenda Ann wrote:




That's what IBOC shills would have you believe, but it has been
demonstrated many times now that this is not the case, and that
significant sideband interference from the IBOC sidebands is caused via
skywave at nighttime. Please note that it takes a significantly smaller
signal to cause interference than it does to actually HEAR the signal
itself. Because of this, those IBOC sidebands can and do interfere with
stations in an area where those same sidebands would not be copyable.

True, and add to that the directional effect of the typical AM loopstick
antenna. For example, a person might be listening in the evening to,
say, WLS with the station in the antenna's near null area. This is no
problem if the signal strength is good and the interference is low. But
the antenna in that position is likely to be near broadside to the WCBS
transmitter and the listener will get the extra noise.

Frank Dresser