On May 7, 5:38*am, Gary Forbis wrote:
On May 7, 4:15*am, "Who i$ John Galt" "Men of the Mind"@Talk-n-



Dog..com wrote:
John Barnard wrote:
~ RHF wrote:
On May 5, 9:09 am, wrote:
On Tue, 5 May 2009 05:17:28 -0700 (PDT), Gary Forbis

wrote:
On May 5, 1:00 am, "~ RHF" wrote:
Would "You" Torture A Terrorist To Save The Lives
Of Your Family and Loved Ones ?
Would you cut off your left arm to save the lives of your
family and loved ones? *Do you still have your left arm?
If so then do you have any family and loved ones?
One stupid hypothetical deserves another.
Are your blinders *of your own making?
- Would you blow up a nuclear bomb in NYC to save your family?
-
- You beat me to it.

RG - Just How Does Commiting a Terrorist Act
and Killing Tens of Thousands or Millions of
Innocent Human Beings =Equate To= "You"
Torture A (One) Terrorist To Save The Lives
Of Your Family and Loved Ones ?
*.
OH YEAH TORTURED LIBERAL LOGIC !
*.
The Answer is either a simple : Yes -or- No
*.

Conservative logic - Torture works.

Liberal Logic - outing CIA agents is OK unless it's Valerye Plame.

It is? *What CIA agents were outed for political purposes that
Liberals
did not decry?

Liberal Logic - Clinton Assassinating Usama Bin laden is OK but Bush
Waterboarding Bin Laden is a crime against humanity.

Some of this is just verbiage. *Would you use the word "assassinating"
in relationship to what a swat team does to a hostage holding bank
robber?

-*The distinction between appropriate and
- inappropriate use of force is quite important.

The Question Becomes : Is Torture Defined By The Use of Force ?

Not To The Person Who Is The Subject Of The Use
Of Physical Force and/or Emotional Trauma Which
Results In Pain, Suffering and/or Their Death.

~ RHF wrote:
On May 7, 5:38 am, Gary Forbis wrote:
On May 7, 4:15 am, "Who i$ John Galt" "Men of the Mind"@Talk-n-



Dog..com wrote:
John Barnard wrote:
~ RHF wrote:
On May 5, 9:09 am, wrote:
On Tue, 5 May 2009 05:17:28 -0700 (PDT), Gary Forbis
wrote:
On May 5, 1:00 am, "~ RHF" wrote:
Would "You" Torture A Terrorist To Save The Lives
Of Your Family and Loved Ones ?
Would you cut off your left arm to save the lives of your
family and loved ones? Do you still have your left arm?
If so then do you have any family and loved ones?
One stupid hypothetical deserves another.
Are your blinders of your own making?
- Would you blow up a nuclear bomb in NYC to save your family?
-
- You beat me to it.
RG - Just How Does Commiting a Terrorist Act
and Killing Tens of Thousands or Millions of
Innocent Human Beings =Equate To= "You"
Torture A (One) Terrorist To Save The Lives
Of Your Family and Loved Ones ?
.
OH YEAH TORTURED LIBERAL LOGIC !
.
The Answer is either a simple : Yes -or- No
.
Conservative logic - Torture works.
Liberal Logic - outing CIA agents is OK unless it's Valerye Plame.
It is? What CIA agents were outed for political purposes that
Liberals
did not decry?

Liberal Logic - Clinton Assassinating Usama Bin laden is OK but Bush
Waterboarding Bin Laden is a crime against humanity.
Some of this is just verbiage. Would you use the word "assassinating"
in relationship to what a swat team does to a hostage holding bank
robber?

- The distinction between appropriate and
- inappropriate use of force is quite important.

The Question Becomes : Is Torture Defined By The Use of Force ?

Not To The Person Who Is The Subject Of The Use
Of Physical Force and/or Emotional Trauma Which
Results In Pain, Suffering and/or Their Death.
.
.

The Neocons want to pretend there was never a Nuremberg trial, never a
Geneva Convention, never a rebuttal of the "Orders are Orders (Befehl
ist befehl) defence. They also want to ignore the fact that the Nazi
judiciary itself was put on trial at Nuremberg for legalizing torture
and cruel and unusual punishment as depicted in the movie Judgement at
Nuremburg. They want to pretend its all debatable.

--

}(:

Note to Rightwing Extremists:
When you get to your new Gettysburg, don't expect Rush, Hannity,
Perry, Goldberg or O'Reilly to be on the field with you or leading
Pickett's Charge. They won't be. They will be way at the back out of
harm's way.

wrote:
On Thu, 07 May 2009 11:50:21 -0400, Wikking
wrote:

The Neocons want to pretend there was never a Nuremberg trial, never a
Geneva Convention, never a rebuttal of the "Orders are Orders (Befehl
ist befehl) defence. They also want to ignore the fact that the Nazi
judiciary itself was put on trial at Nuremberg for legalizing torture
and cruel and unusual punishment as depicted in the movie Judgement at
Nuremburg. They want to pretend its all debatable.

The nazis created a mythology to make it all "legal" also.

Totally rebutted at Nuremberg. Gonzalez and the Neocons were trying to
turn the US into a third world banana republic with a south american
dictator in charge. That "permanent GOP majority".... HAHAHAHA!

--

}(:

Note to Rightwing Extremists:
When you get to your new Gettysburg, don't expect Rush, Hannity,
Perry, Goldberg or O'Reilly to be on the field with you or leading
Pickett's Charge. They won't be. They will be way at the back out of
harm's way.

On May 7, 7:53*am, wrote:
On Thu, 7 May 2009 03:10:46 -0700 (PDT), "~ RHF"



wrote:
On May 5, 6:55*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 05 May 2009 17:23:51 -0700, dave wrote:
~ RHF wrote:

So Liberal & Democrats Believe that it is OK
"Moral" to let your Family and Friends and
Loved Ones Die : When you could have 'possibly'
prevented it from happening to them.

What profits a man who gains the world but loses his soul?

- Oh his religion is as faux as the rest of his "values".

- - RG - Keep Preaching That "Hate"
- - Against Persons of Faith. ~ RHF

- Damn another irony meter blown to hell by an American Taleban.

RG -fyi-it's- Taliban
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban

On May 7, 10:26*am, Mike wrote:
On May 7, 8:58*am, "~ RHF" wrote:



On May 7, 5:38*am, Gary Forbis wrote:

On May 7, 4:15*am, "Who i$ John Galt" "Men of the Mind"@Talk-n-

Dog..com wrote:
John Barnard wrote:
~ RHF wrote:
On May 5, 9:09 am, wrote:
On Tue, 5 May 2009 05:17:28 -0700 (PDT), Gary Forbis

wrote:
On May 5, 1:00 am, "~ RHF" wrote:
Would "You" Torture A Terrorist To Save The Lives
Of Your Family and Loved Ones ?
Would you cut off your left arm to save the lives of your
family and loved ones? *Do you still have your left arm?
If so then do you have any family and loved ones?
One stupid hypothetical deserves another.
Are your blinders *of your own making?
- Would you blow up a nuclear bomb in NYC to save your family?
-
- You beat me to it.

RG - Just How Does Commiting a Terrorist Act
and Killing Tens of Thousands or Millions of
Innocent Human Beings =Equate To= "You"
Torture A (One) Terrorist To Save The Lives
Of Your Family and Loved Ones ?
*.
OH YEAH TORTURED LIBERAL LOGIC !
*.
The Answer is either a simple : Yes -or- No
*.

Conservative logic - Torture works.

Liberal Logic - outing CIA agents is OK unless it's Valerye Plame.

It is? *What CIA agents were outed for political purposes that
Liberals
did not decry?

Liberal Logic - Clinton Assassinating Usama Bin laden is OK but Bush
Waterboarding Bin Laden is a crime against humanity.

Some of this is just verbiage. *Would you use the word "assassinating"
in relationship to what a swat team does to a hostage holding bank
robber?

-*The distinction between appropriate and
- inappropriate use of force is quite important.

The Question Becomes : Is Torture Defined By The Use of Force ?

Not To The Person Who Is The Subject Of The Use
Of Physical Force and/or Emotional Trauma Which
Results In Pain, Suffering and/or Their Death.
*.
*.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

RHF,

- What are you saying?

-reposted-
The Question Becomes : Is Torture Defined By The Use of Force ?

[ Is the Use of Force the Defining Element of Torture ? ]

Gary Forbis wrote:
On May 7, 4:15 am, "Who i$ John Galt" "Men of the Mind"@Talk-n-
Dog..com wrote:
John Barnard wrote:
~ RHF wrote:
On May 5, 9:09 am, wrote:
On Tue, 5 May 2009 05:17:28 -0700 (PDT), Gary Forbis
wrote:
On May 5, 1:00 am, "~ RHF" wrote:
Would "You" Torture A Terrorist To Save The Lives
Of Your Family and Loved Ones ?
Would you cut off your left arm to save the lives of your
family and loved ones? Do you still have your left arm?
If so then do you have any family and loved ones?
One stupid hypothetical deserves another.
Are your blinders of your own making?
- Would you blow up a nuclear bomb in NYC to save your family?
-
- You beat me to it.
RG - Just How Does Commiting a Terrorist Act
and Killing Tens of Thousands or Millions of
Innocent Human Beings =Equate To= "You"
Torture A (One) Terrorist To Save The Lives
Of Your Family and Loved Ones ?
.
OH YEAH TORTURED LIBERAL LOGIC !
.
The Answer is either a simple : Yes -or- No
.
Conservative logic - Torture works.
Liberal Logic - outing CIA agents is OK unless it's Valerye Plame.

It is? What CIA agents were outed for political purposes that
Liberals
did not decry?

The CIA waterboarding ones that were recently outed.

Liberal Logic - Clinton Assassinating Usama Bin laden is OK but Bush
Waterboarding Bin Laden is a crime against humanity.

Some of this is just verbiage. Would you use the word "assassinating"
in relationship to what a swat team does to a hostage holding bank
robber? The distinction between appropriate and inappropriate use
of force is quite important.

When you select someone and specifically plan and try to kill them....?

I tend to call it assassination. War is indiscriminate attacks on a
military not targeting one single person.

~ RHF wrote:
On May 7, 5:38 am, Gary Forbis wrote:
On May 7, 4:15 am, "Who i$ John Galt" "Men of the Mind"@Talk-n-



Dog..com wrote:
John Barnard wrote:
~ RHF wrote:
On May 5, 9:09 am, wrote:
On Tue, 5 May 2009 05:17:28 -0700 (PDT), Gary Forbis
wrote:
On May 5, 1:00 am, "~ RHF" wrote:
Would "You" Torture A Terrorist To Save The Lives
Of Your Family and Loved Ones ?
Would you cut off your left arm to save the lives of your
family and loved ones? Do you still have your left arm?
If so then do you have any family and loved ones?
One stupid hypothetical deserves another.
Are your blinders of your own making?
- Would you blow up a nuclear bomb in NYC to save your family?
-
- You beat me to it.
RG - Just How Does Commiting a Terrorist Act
and Killing Tens of Thousands or Millions of
Innocent Human Beings =Equate To= "You"
Torture A (One) Terrorist To Save The Lives
Of Your Family and Loved Ones ?
.
OH YEAH TORTURED LIBERAL LOGIC !
.
The Answer is either a simple : Yes -or- No
.
Conservative logic - Torture works.
Liberal Logic - outing CIA agents is OK unless it's Valerye Plame.
It is? What CIA agents were outed for political purposes that
Liberals
did not decry?

Liberal Logic - Clinton Assassinating Usama Bin laden is OK but Bush
Waterboarding Bin Laden is a crime against humanity.
Some of this is just verbiage. Would you use the word "assassinating"
in relationship to what a swat team does to a hostage holding bank
robber?

- The distinction between appropriate and
- inappropriate use of force is quite important.

The Question Becomes : Is Torture Defined By The Use of Force ?

Not To The Person Who Is The Subject Of The Use
Of Physical Force and/or Emotional Trauma Which
Results In Pain, Suffering and/or Their Death.
.
.

Pelosi was briefed on the Torture and the documents are coming out....
She and the Congress already have it all settled, if it were illegal
Pelosi would not have colluded to allow Bush to adopt it in the first
place.... would she?

On May 7, 10:56*am, Mike wrote:
On May 7, 6:09*am, "~ RHF" wrote:



On May 5, 5:23*pm, dave wrote:
- - ~ RHF wrote:
- - So Liberal & Democrats Believe that it is OK
- - "Moral" to let your Family and Friends and
- - Loved Ones Die : When you could have 'possibly'
- - prevented it from happening to them.

- What profits a man who gains the world but loses his soul?

Dave - What profits a man who Save His Family and Friends
{Retains His World} -but- Tortures and/or Kills a Terrorist

He has a World with his Family and Friends
in it; and the Understanding and Forgiveness
of God{Allah} - Amen ~ RHF
*.
*.

- So, all those terrorists murderers have to do
- is ask God (Allah) for forgiveness?
- If that's all that's required, Hell must be a very
- lonely place.....
-
- If that's all that tortutrers have to do to be
- in God's grace, then that's all terrorists
- have to do, right?

MWB,

For the Islam-O-Fascist Terrorist and Torturers :
They would not ask God for Forgiveness.
However to 'Their' Belief System 'They' would
Ask Allah for His Blessings for Killing and/or
Torturing an Infidel.

- Aw, the paradox of religious-based justice....

Yeah that why the Islam-O-Fascist want the
Subjugation of Non-Believers and Sharia Law.

The Muslim had Islamic Law Behind Him and
the Non-Believer has No Legal Standing.

Hell-on-Earth -is- The Life of a Non-Believer
in an Islamic State That Imposes Sharia Law.

While MWB in the vast majority of Western
Democracies base on Judeo-Christian Law
both Belivers and Non-Belivers have Equal
Legal Standing {Equality} Before The Law.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judeo-Christian
Why Even the Communist gave Lip Service
to Equality Before The Law For All.
ISLAM DOES NOT [.]

On May 7, 2:54*pm, Kevin Cunningham wrote:
On May 7, 7:03*am, "~ RHF" wrote:



On May 6, 5:56*am, Kevin Cunningham wrote:

On May 5, 5:54*pm, "~ RHF" wrote:

On May 5, 9:09*am, wrote: On Tue, 5 May 2009 05:17:28 -0700 (PDT), Gary Forbis

wrote:
On May 5, 1:00*am, "~ RHF" wrote:

Would "You" Torture A Terrorist To Save The Lives
Of Your Family and Loved Ones ?

Would you cut off your left arm to save the lives of your
family and loved ones? *Do you still have your left arm?
If so then do you have any family and loved ones?

One stupid hypothetical deserves another.
Are your blinders *of your own making?

- Would you blow up a nuclear bomb in NYC to save your family?
-
- You beat me to it.

RG - Just How Does Commiting a Terrorist Act
and Killing Tens of Thousands or Millions of
Innocent Human Beings =Equate To= "You"
Torture A (One) Terrorist To Save The Lives
Of Your Family and Loved Ones ?
*.
OH YEAH TORTURED LIBERAL LOGIC !
*.
The Answer is either a simple : Yes -or- No
*.

The answer is that torture doesn't work.

Another Liberal Lie and Democrat Distortion :
Since what is now being called Torture did
help prevent a 9/11 type Attack on LA.

-*The answer is that you, personally, want to watch. *

KC - If you had ever saw a Family Member, a Friend
or Loved One In-Pain and Suffering : You Would Not
Want To Watch [.]

- You get your rocks off by hearing about torture.

KC - Typical Liberal-Fascist Thinking Torture = Sex.

-*You are a coward.

KC - 'coward'

- - - = = = RHF's Canned Reply 'Rant' = = = - - -
[: To Liberal-Fascist Name Calling :]
ROTFL - You Know When You Are Winning An Argument :
When a Super-Smart 'Enlightened" Liberal Starts Name Calling*.
* They Lose Their Ability To Think And Get Emotional - rotfl ~ RHFhttp://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/318979fbe8546cfa
*.
typical liberal-fascist thinking with respect to other
human beings who do not bow-down to them ~ RHF

- But so what, you want to watch other people being tortured.

KC -clearly- Your 'projections' -wrt- my mental
reasoning and motives; are in-fact a mirror of
your own Psyche with your repeated allusions
to 'watching' and 'sex'.

-*Not that torture ever reveals anything,
- how many witches got burned do you

think? *How many satanists?

KC - Not talking about 'witches' or 'satinists'
unless you personally know of some who have
recently been 'burned' here i the USA.

We are Talking about Islam-O-Fascist Terrorists
who plan Terrorist Attacks like 9/11 and Kill
Thousands of Innocent People Men, Women
and Children.

- The fact is that all the persons involved in torture
- are criminally culpable. *The fact that they won't
- be brought to trial shows what prosecutorial
- discretion is.

KC -fwiw- Personally I 'think' that both Bush and
Cheney should be Accountable; and Said They
Asked For The Legal Advisements On What
Constitutes Torture : State That They Gave The
Orders; and Name The Names of The Members
of the US Congress Who Either Gave The OK
or Their Passive Approval to what is now being
Called Torture After-the-Fact by many of those
same Members of the US Congress.

Pelosi & Reid & Biden + Et Al

Former us president GW Bush and former vp
Dick Cheney need to Stand-Up before the US
Congress On TV and Start Name Names.
*.
*.

- Prove that torture prevented an attack on LA. *You have the floor.

"CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind
Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style Attack on Los Angeles.”
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/arc...yay_tortu re/

- By the way, did you know that you don't have to capitalize every
thing?

NO I DID NOT ! ) ~ RHF

On May 7, 10:27*am, Mike wrote:
On May 7, 12:26*pm, "~ RHF" wrote:



On May 7, 8:50*am, Wikking wrote:

~ RHF wrote:
On May 7, 5:38 am, Gary Forbis wrote:
On May 7, 4:15 am, "Who i$ John Galt" "Men of the Mind"@Talk-n-

Dog..com wrote:
John Barnard wrote:
~ RHF wrote:
On May 5, 9:09 am, wrote:
On Tue, 5 May 2009 05:17:28 -0700 (PDT), Gary Forbis
wrote:
On May 5, 1:00 am, "~ RHF" wrote:
Would "You" Torture A Terrorist To Save The Lives
Of Your Family and Loved Ones ?
Would you cut off your left arm to save the lives of your
family and loved ones? *Do you still have your left arm?
If so then do you have any family and loved ones?
One stupid hypothetical deserves another.
Are your blinders *of your own making?
- Would you blow up a nuclear bomb in NYC to save your family?
-
- You beat me to it.
RG - Just How Does Commiting a Terrorist Act
and Killing Tens of Thousands or Millions of
Innocent Human Beings =Equate To= "You"
Torture A (One) Terrorist To Save The Lives
Of Your Family and Loved Ones ?
*.
OH YEAH TORTURED LIBERAL LOGIC !
*.
The Answer is either a simple : Yes -or- No
*.
Conservative logic - Torture works.
Liberal Logic - outing CIA agents is OK unless it's Valerye Plame..
It is? *What CIA agents were outed for political purposes that
Liberals
did not decry?

Liberal Logic - Clinton Assassinating Usama Bin laden is OK but Bush
Waterboarding Bin Laden is a crime against humanity.
Some of this is just verbiage. *Would you use the word "assassinating"
in relationship to what a swat team does to a hostage holding bank
robber?

- The distinction between appropriate and
- inappropriate use of force is quite important.

The Question Becomes : Is Torture Defined By The Use of Force ?

Not To The Person Who Is The Subject Of The Use
Of Physical Force and/or Emotional Trauma Which
Results In Pain, Suffering and/or Their Death.
*.
*.

The Neocons want to pretend there was never a Nuremberg trial, never a
Geneva Convention, never a rebuttal of the "Orders are Orders (Befehl
ist befehl) defence. They also want to ignore the fact that the Nazi
judiciary itself was put on trial at Nuremberg for legalizing torture
and cruel and unusual punishment as depicted in the movie Judgement at
Nuremburg. They want to pretend its all debatable.

--

}(:

- Note to Rightwing Extremists:
- When you get to your new Gettysburg, don't expect Rush, Hannity,
- Perry, Goldberg or O'Reilly to be on the field with you or leading
- Pickett's Charge. They won't be. They will be way at the back out of
- harm's way.

Note to Wikking : {Gettysburg a Battle to Save America}
we will be there, We Will Be There. WE WILL BE THERE !
- - - no media stars required ~ RHF
*.
*.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The battle has already been fought.

MWB - The 'Battle' To Protect and Defend
the USA and Americans : Is Going On Everyday
Around the World 24/7. ~ RHF