Hello,

I was at the beach yesterday and enjoyed spectacular shortwave
reception. When I got back home after that I tried to listen to
shortwave in my house but I didn't have a very good time of it.

I was wondering if there is a way to listen to shortwave in your
house. I have heard of something called an attic loop? Would that
work well? Are those easy to install and are they fairly inexpensive?

Thanks!

Andrew.

On May 10, 1:15*am, MacaualyFlower
wrote:
Hello,

I was at the beach yesterday and enjoyed spectacular shortwave
reception. *When I got back home after that I tried to listen to
shortwave in my house but I didn't have a very good time of it.

I was wondering if there is a way to listen to shortwave in your
house. *I have heard of something called an attic loop? *Would that
work well? *Are those easy to install and are they fairly inexpensive?

Thanks!

Andrew.

Wearing a tin foil hat works everytime!

wrote:
On May 10, 1:15 am, MacaualyFlower
wrote:
Hello,

I was at the beach yesterday and enjoyed spectacular shortwave
reception. When I got back home after that I tried to listen to
shortwave in my house but I didn't have a very good time of it.

I was wondering if there is a way to listen to shortwave in your
house. I have heard of something called an attic loop? Would that
work well? Are those easy to install and are they fairly inexpensive?

Thanks!

Andrew.

Wearing a tin foil hat works everytime!



That's not a kind (or grammatical) response to someone who just
wants help with the hobby.

Andrew:

An outdoor antenna will always work better for you than an indoor
one, because it is farther away from the radio noise generated by
appliances and consumer electronics in the home, and it isn't
subject to reduced signal strength due to the building itself.

Nevertheless, if an outside antenna is absolutely impossible, an
attic antenna will often work better than the radio's built-in whip
antenna indoors.

Antennas are a big subject, upon which many books have been written,
but here is a brief article which should help you get started:

http://www.hamuniverse.com/shortwaveantenna.html


With best wishes,


Kevin, WB4AIO.
--
http://kevinalfredstrom.com/

On May 10, 1:15 am,
wrote: Hello,

I was at the beach yesterday and enjoyed spectacular shortwave
reception. When I got back home after that I tried to listen to
shortwave in my house but I didn't have a very good time of it.

I was wondering if there is a way to listen to shortwave in your
house. I have heard of something called an attic loop? Would that
work well? Are those easy to install and are they fairly inexpensive?

Thanks!

Andrew.



A loop can be expensive. There are also build-your-own solutions
that can be quite economical. It's all going to depend on your level
of technical skill, and your willingness to expand your skills and
technical understanding.

Your problems in at-home listening are based on the levels of
noise generated by items in the house, as well as signal loss
resulting from siding and other construction materials, ground and
other clutter. The composite result of attenuated signal at the
antenna, and higher noise levels from sources in the home make for
some pretty suckular listening.

The best solution is an external antenna. More signal and less
noise. A dramatic difference is possible.

Easiest would be a random wire through a 9:1 transformer to a
well shielded and grounded coaxial transmission line to your radio.
This can be all the improvement you need. Easily deployed. Easily
concealed, if that's an issue.

Loops are very good solutions. They can offer a level of noise
immunity. A properly selected diameter can provide less directional
reception at HF frequencies, making for simpler operation. That
said, smaller loops tend to be of lower gain, requiring
amplification to not only boost signal levels, but to overcome
losses in the transmission line for better noise figures. Such
loops, like the Wellbrooks, can run you a few hundred bucks just to
get one in the building. You build one for less, but that will
require some technical understanding of loops, transmission lines
and the field of antennae in general.

Loops in the attic....not the best solution. Mostly because
you're still in the building where noises are generated. Level of
noise in your receiver is proportional to the proximity of the
antenna to the source. Outdoors, away from the building is a
dramatically better way to go.

You may be surprised where at the sources of your troublesome
noise. Computers, routers, and printers, are horrid offenders, of
course. But the rectifier bridges in audio amps (Crowns are
notorious for this), HD tv sets (on or off), cable/U-verse boxes,
noises on the A/C line, and even some ground legs can all be noise
sources. Some, like rectifier bridges can be quieted with capacitors
across rectifier junctions to soak up the switching transient.
Others, more difficult. But there are always solutions to improve,
if not eliminate some noises.

ARRL publishes a terrific book on antennae, antenna theory, and
practical designs and construction tips.

And there are always sources, like this group, where the
technical knowledge is available to help you track down and maim, if
not kill, noise.

Dig in. Getting your hands working is a lot of fun.




p

There are many Yahoo groups that will also be sources of good information. Just do a search of "shortwave radio groups" on Yahoo and you will find excellent information for your problems. I belong to about 12 different ones, includong antenna and radio specific ones. Hope this helps. Greg, KE5LDO

"MacaualyFlower" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I was at the beach yesterday and enjoyed spectacular shortwave
reception. When I got back home after that I tried to listen to
shortwave in my house but I didn't have a very good time of it.

I was wondering if there is a way to listen to shortwave in your
house. I have heard of something called an attic loop? Would that
work well? Are those easy to install and are they fairly
inexpensive?

I have this antenna strung under the eaves and it works great. Seems
it would do just as well in the attic:
http://www.grove-ent.com/ANT8.html

On Sun, 10 May 2009 16:05:37 GMT, "D. Peter Maus"
wrote:

On May 10, 1:15 am,
wrote: Hello,

I was at the beach yesterday and enjoyed spectacular shortwave
reception. When I got back home after that I tried to listen to
shortwave in my house but I didn't have a very good time of it.

I was wondering if there is a way to listen to shortwave in your
house. I have heard of something called an attic loop? Would that
work well? Are those easy to install and are they fairly inexpensive?

Thanks!

Andrew.



A loop can be expensive. There are also build-your-own solutions
that can be quite economical. It's all going to depend on your level
of technical skill, and your willingness to expand your skills and
technical understanding.

Your problems in at-home listening are based on the levels of
noise generated by items in the house, as well as signal loss
resulting from siding and other construction materials, ground and
other clutter. The composite result of attenuated signal at the
antenna, and higher noise levels from sources in the home make for
some pretty suckular listening.

The best solution is an external antenna. More signal and less
noise. A dramatic difference is possible.

Easiest would be a random wire through a 9:1 transformer to a
well shielded and grounded coaxial transmission line to your radio.
This can be all the improvement you need. Easily deployed. Easily
concealed, if that's an issue.

Loops are very good solutions. They can offer a level of noise
immunity. A properly selected diameter can provide less directional
reception at HF frequencies, making for simpler operation. That
said, smaller loops tend to be of lower gain, requiring
amplification to not only boost signal levels, but to overcome
losses in the transmission line for better noise figures. Such
loops, like the Wellbrooks, can run you a few hundred bucks just to
get one in the building. You build one for less, but that will
require some technical understanding of loops, transmission lines
and the field of antennae in general.

Loops in the attic....not the best solution. Mostly because
you're still in the building where noises are generated. Level of
noise in your receiver is proportional to the proximity of the
antenna to the source. Outdoors, away from the building is a
dramatically better way to go.

You may be surprised where at the sources of your troublesome
noise. Computers, routers, and printers, are horrid offenders, of
course. But the rectifier bridges in audio amps (Crowns are
notorious for this), HD tv sets (on or off), cable/U-verse boxes,
noises on the A/C line, and even some ground legs can all be noise
sources. Some, like rectifier bridges can be quieted with capacitors
across rectifier junctions to soak up the switching transient.
Others, more difficult. But there are always solutions to improve,
if not eliminate some noises.

ARRL publishes a terrific book on antennae, antenna theory, and
practical designs and construction tips.

And there are always sources, like this group, where the
technical knowledge is available to help you track down and maim, if
not kill, noise.

Dig in. Getting your hands working is a lot of fun.




p


It might help to narrow down the advice if the original poster could
tell us what sort of radio he wants to connect an antenna to.

From the post, it sounds like a portable. If so, 30 feet of wire out
the window might be more than enough. (Still not gonna sound like the
beach, but at least there's less sand to get in the radio.)

--
Col. I.P. Yurin
Commissariat of Internal Security

Stakhanovite
Order of Lenin (1937)
Hero of Socialist Labor (1939)

You will always get better reception on a beach than in an inland
house. These antenna ideas might help but there is also a reason why
there are so many different opinions on antennas, because what works
for someone doesn't work for someone else.

A big factor is the location of your house. You could have power lines
or other household appliances interfering with SW reception.
Experiment around and I wish you luck.

Did you also try your shortwave on different days or nights?
Propagation can differ greatly from day to day,.

What radio are you using?

On May 10, 9:05*am, "D. Peter Maus"
wrote:
* On May 10, 1:15 am,

* wrote: Hello,

I was at the beach yesterday and enjoyed spectacular shortwave
reception. *When I got back home after that I tried to listen to
shortwave in my house but I didn't have a very good time of it.

I was wondering if there is a way to listen to shortwave in your
house. *I have heard of something called an attic loop? *Would that
work well? *Are those easy to install and are they fairly inexpensive?

Thanks!

Andrew.

* *A loop can be expensive. There are also build-your-own solutions
that can be quite economical. It's all going to depend on your level
of technical skill, and your willingness to expand your skills and
technical understanding.

* *Your problems in at-home listening are based on the levels of
noise generated by items in the house, as well as signal loss
resulting from siding and other construction materials, ground and
other clutter. The composite result of attenuated signal at the
antenna, and higher noise levels from sources in the home make for
some pretty suckular listening.

* *The best solution is an external antenna. More signal and less
noise. A dramatic difference is possible.

* *Easiest would be a random wire through a 9:1 transformer to a
well shielded and grounded coaxial transmission line to your radio.
This can be all the improvement you need. Easily deployed. Easily
concealed, if that's an issue.

* *Loops are very good solutions. They can offer a level of noise
immunity. A properly selected diameter can provide less directional
reception at HF frequencies, making for simpler operation. That
said, smaller loops tend to be of lower gain, requiring
amplification to not only boost signal levels, but to overcome
losses in the transmission line for better noise figures. Such
loops, like the Wellbrooks, can run you a few hundred bucks just to
get one in the building. You build one for less, but that will
require some technical understanding of loops, transmission lines
and the field of antennae in general.

* *Loops in the attic....not the best solution. Mostly because
you're still in the building where noises are generated. Level of
noise in your receiver is proportional to the proximity of the
antenna to the source. Outdoors, away from the building is a
dramatically better way to go.

* *You may be surprised where at the sources of your troublesome
noise. *Computers, routers, and printers, are horrid offenders, of
course. But the rectifier bridges in audio amps (Crowns are
notorious for this), HD tv sets (on or off), cable/U-verse boxes,
noises on the A/C line, and even some ground legs can all be noise
sources. Some, like rectifier bridges can be quieted with capacitors
across rectifier junctions to soak up the switching transient.
Others, more difficult. But there are always solutions to improve,
if not eliminate some noises.

* *ARRL publishes a terrific book on antennae, antenna theory, and
practical designs and construction tips.

* *And there are always sources, like this group, where the
technical knowledge is available to help you track down and maim, if
not kill, noise.

* *Dig in. Getting your hands working is a lot of fun.

* *p

Wow everyone! Thank you for your help.

I used to work at Radio Shack and when I was there, I bought myself a
"Grundig S350." I'm not sure what your opinions are of this radio but
it was one of the best purchases I have ever made. I love this
radio. I am looking at the back of it right now and it has a place
for "AM/SW ANT" and a ground. It looks like the old speaker wire
"clip in" things. I'm not sure I described the "clip in" things
really well. A hole with a switch that pinches the wire in place.

I guess one of the concerns I would have is finding a way to get the
antenna line from outside of the house to inside.

Bob Dobbs wrote:

MacaualyFlower wrote:

I guess one of the concerns I would have is finding a way to get the
antenna line from outside of the house to inside.

Through a window

Or drill a hole, and put a feed through tube in.

dxAce
Michigan
USA