On Nov 14, 9:15*pm, Beam Me Up Scotty Then-Destroy-Everyth...@Talk-n-
dog.com wrote:
John Galt wrote:
dave wrote:
Beam Me Up Scotty wrote:

Freedom is Libertarian, and it may be gone for ever, Socialism has never
worked and was extinct before it ever lived.

What? *Don't tell the Europeans.

Why not? They're not socialist. They're social democracies.

HUGE difference.

JG

Do you think the Europeans will decide to defend themselves and pay for
their Socialism?

How will that work? * They barely have any economy as it is... *Add in
the 20% it will cost to keep a real army and they will be pushing 95%
taxes for the average worker. *It will also drop their GDP to a -19.5% GDP.
--

The Europeans do not have the Will and the
Capital to Fully Defend themselves on their
own.

Once the USA is Bankrupt in the next Decade
and can no longer support it's Military and resigns
as a Global Peacekeeper: The Europeans will be
at the 'mercy' of Russia, China, India and OPEC.

USA is Bankruptcy will happen when the US Dollar
is Devaluated to 20~25 Cents on the Dollar if 'we'
Americans are Lucky -or- to 5~10 Cents on the
Dollar if 'we' Americans are Unlucky.

~ RHF

In article a1ddb987-c5af-4efe-8ac3-
,
says...
On Nov 14, 3:36*pm, wrote:
On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 15:50:00 -0500, Beam Me Up Scotty

wrote:

Europe has been relying on the USA to generate the wealth to keep Europe
free for the last 70 years.

We made their Socialism work, as we fail so shall their Socialism.

You dingbat

- You wouldn't know a socialist if one kicked you.

Goose Stepping is a good indication . . .
http://www.diggerhistory.info/images...goose-step.jpg
National "Socialist" German Worker's Party (NSDAP)
-aka- The NAZIs
.



BWHAHAHA! That's funny, unless you were serious, and I would bet you
are.
--

BDK..
Leader of the nonexistent paid shills.
Non Jew Jew Club founding member.
Former number one Kook Magnet, title passed to Iarnrod.

On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 04:14:53 -0800, RHF wrote:

On Nov 14, 3:36Â*pm, wrote:
On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 15:50:00 -0500, Beam Me Up Scotty

wrote:

Europe has been relying on the USA to generate the wealth to keep
Europe free for the last 70 years.

We made their Socialism work, as we fail so shall their Socialism.

You dingbat

- You wouldn't know a socialist if one kicked you.

Goose Stepping is a good indication . . .
http://www.diggerhistory.info/images...goose-step.jpg National
"Socialist" German Worker's Party (NSDAP) -aka- The NAZIs
.


The "federalists" of the 1780's were actually the "unionists". If the
English language is held to account the "anti-federalist" were the true
defenders of the federation described in the "Articles of Confederation"
and the so called "federlists" were the "unionists". By adopting the
moniker of "federalist" these unionists left the true federalist with a
serious political problem and forced them to the defensive posture of
being against something as opposed to _for_ something. They became the
"anti-federalists". It is much the same thing with the "National
Socialist German Workers Party".

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/m...i-fascism.html

The movement led by the "National Socialist German Worker's Party" was
fascist just as the movement of the federalists was actually unionist and
the opposite of true federalism. Ain't politics grand?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Party

--
"Those are my opinions and you can't have em" -- Bart Simpson

On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 04:30:07 -0800, RHF wrote:

On Nov 15, 2:46Â*am, John Galt wrote:
dave wrote:
John Galt wrote:
dave wrote:
Beam Me Up Scotty wrote:

Freedom is Libertarian, and it may be gone for ever, Socialism has
never
worked and was extinct before it ever lived.

What? Â*Don't tell the Europeans.

Why not? They're not socialist. They're social democracies.

HUGE difference.

JG

"...modern social democracy has deviated from socialism, and supports
the idea of a mixed economy which incorporates elements of both
socialism and capitalism.[2] Social democrats aim to reform
capitalism democratically through state regulation and the creation
of programs that work to counteract or remove the social injustice
and inefficiencies they see as inherent in capitalism. A product of
this effort has been the modern democratic welfare state. This
approach significantly differs from traditional socialism, which aims
to replace the capitalist system entirely with a new economic system
characterized by either state or direct worker ownership of the means
of production.

In many countries, social democrats continue to exist alongside
democratic socialists, who stand to the left of them on the political
spectrum. The two movements sometimes operate within the same
political party, such as the Brazilian Workers' Party[3] and the
French Socialist Party. In recent years, several social democratic
parties (in particular, the British Labour Party) have embraced more
centrist, Third Way policy positions. This development has generated
considerable controversy..."

- Correct. However, the core difference is that social democrats
recognize
- that government ownership of the means of production is, at its core,
- counterproductive to a prosperous society. (Even though they may very
- well own certain productive processes deemed essential to society,
they
- do so not because they think they can improve their efficiency, but -
because they feel it necessary to prioritize the process differenly than
- the free market would allot.)
-
- Socialists refuse to recognize this. -
- JG

Sort of like a Government Enterprise being Taxed by the very same
Government.

Imagine -if- the IRS had to Pay a Corporate Income Tax on the Income
Taxes that it Collected from the Tax Payers.

Tax Payers = Share Holders in the Government.

Then imagine the IRS Paying a Dividend to the American Tax Payers for
the Taxes that they had Paid from the Taxes that the IRS had Paid on
those very same Taxes.

Hey Socialism can Create Money Through Taxes-On-Taxes with no external
inputs.

what goes around comes around ~ RHF
.

The rightarded refuse to understand that government is simply NOT a
business. Government is not supposed to make a profit and it is not
actually advisable for government to operate without _SMALL_ deficits.

--
"Those are my opinions and you can't have em" -- Bart Simpson

"Michael Coburn" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 04:14:53 -0800, RHF wrote:

On Nov 14, 3:36 pm, wrote:
On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 15:50:00 -0500, Beam Me Up Scotty

wrote:

Europe has been relying on the USA to generate the wealth to keep
Europe free for the last 70 years.

We made their Socialism work, as we fail so shall their Socialism.

You dingbat

- You wouldn't know a socialist if one kicked you.

Goose Stepping is a good indication . . .
http://www.diggerhistory.info/images...goose-step.jpg National
"Socialist" German Worker's Party (NSDAP) -aka- The NAZIs
.


The "federalists" of the 1780's were actually the "unionists". If the
English language is held to account the "anti-federalist" were the true
defenders of the federation described in the "Articles of Confederation"
and the so called "federlists" were the "unionists". By adopting the
moniker of "federalist" these unionists left the true federalist with a
serious political problem and forced them to the defensive posture of
being against something as opposed to _for_ something. They became the
"anti-federalists". It is much the same thing with the "National
Socialist German Workers Party".

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/m...i-fascism.html

The movement led by the "National Socialist German Worker's Party" was
fascist just as the movement of the federalists was actually unionist and
the opposite of true federalism. Ain't politics grand?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Party


In much the same vein as the more times the name of a country uses the words
"democratic", "peoples", "free", "republic", etc. in their name, the more
despotic they actually are.

On Nov 15, 9:18*am, Beam Me Up Scotty Then-Destroy-Everyth...@Talk-n-
dog.com wrote:
RHF wrote:
On Nov 14, 3:36 pm, wrote:
On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 15:50:00 -0500, Beam Me Up Scotty

wrote:

Europe has been relying on the USA to generate the wealth to keep Europe
free for the last 70 years.
We made their Socialism work, as we fail so shall their Socialism.
You dingbat

- You wouldn't know a socialist if one kicked you.

A socialist is someone that wants to take my money to pay for their *****.

- Like we paid for the military security of Europe and Europe decided
to
- give their people government health care, soon they'll be paying for
- their own military and their own health care.

Before the USA Pull-Outs of Iraq and Afghanistan

The USA needs to Pull-Out of Europe, Japan,
and South Korea.

Let's Bring the All the US Troops Home and Finally
Put-an-End the Post-War Occupations from WWII :
* Let Europe Pay the Full Price for It's Own Defense.
* Let Japan Pay the Full Price for It's Own Defense.
* Let South Korea Pay the Full Price for It's Own Defense.
Spend American Tax Dollars On American US Citizens
Right Here In America - say 'no' to foreign aid ~ RHF

On Nov 15, 9:31*pm, John Galt wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 07:11:14 -0600, John Galt
wrote:

You apparently live in a parallel universe. *May I ask where you get
your news from?
I travel extensively for work in Europe, talk just as extensively about
these issues to my colleagues, and have relatives who live and work in
Belgium, Germany, Sweden, The Netherlands, Austria, and Italy.

Ah, yes

Anecdotal evidence

How quaint

Nothing anecdotal about it, child.

My own nephew is now back at work because Sweden reclassified his
particular physical problem from "disability" to "able-bodied" as part
of the government's pullback of covered benefits of their social welfer
system. You can quite easily get a list of such things that are no
longer covered if you care to do some research. Same thing for the
Netherlands and Germany (at least) which have also pulled back on
coverage in their systems.

Simply because the fact is transmitted word-of-mouth rather than in a
media outlet does not render it unfactual.

There are those Real "Facts" that we personally
"Know" from first-hand experience.

-and- There are those 'facts' that we have read
about; and accept as being 'facts'.


Now, back to your trailer park. You're obviously one of those Americans
who doesn't have a passport, but considers themselves an expert on world
affairs.

JG

On Nov 15, 9:31*pm, John Galt wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 07:11:14 -0600, John Galt
wrote:

You apparently live in a parallel universe. *May I ask where you get
your news from?
I travel extensively for work in Europe, talk just as extensively about
these issues to my colleagues, and have relatives who live and work in
Belgium, Germany, Sweden, The Netherlands, Austria, and Italy.

Ah, yes

Anecdotal evidence

How quaint

Nothing anecdotal about it, child.

My own nephew is now back at work because Sweden reclassified his
particular physical problem from "disability" to "able-bodied" as part
of the government's pullback of covered benefits of their social welfer
system. You can quite easily get a list of such things that are no
longer covered if you care to do some research. Same thing for the
Netherlands and Germany (at least) which have also pulled back on
coverage in their systems.

America's Senior US Citizens have paid into the
US Medicare System for Decades and still Pay
into it -but- Now face $500B in Medicare Cut-Backs
{reclassified as Cost-Savings} to Pay for Obama-Care©

-ps- US Medicare System Cut-Backs* but the US
Medicare System Month Payment stays the same.
* Less Services & Same Cost = Relative Higher Cost

Simply because the fact is transmitted word-of-mouth rather than in a
media outlet does not render it unfactual.

Now, back to your trailer park. You're obviously one of those Americans
who doesn't have a passport, but considers themselves an expert on world
affairs.

JG

On Nov 16, 10:13*am, John Galt wrote:
Beam Me Up Scotty wrote:



John Galt wrote:
Beam Me Up Scotty wrote:
John Galt wrote:
Beam Me Up Scotty wrote:
John Galt wrote:
dave wrote:
Beam Me Up Scotty wrote:

Freedom is Libertarian, and it may be gone for ever, Socialism has
never
worked and was extinct before it ever lived.

What? *Don't tell the Europeans.
Why not? They're not socialist. They're social democracies.

HUGE difference.

JG

Do you think the Europeans will decide to defend themselves and pay for
their Socialism?
Eventually, yes. The younger generation in Europe is much more concerned
about fiscal responsibility (and sustainable social welfare systems)
than their parents are.

Oxymoron: "sustainable Social welfare"
No. You can do social welfare sustainably. That's just arithmetic.

Social security and Medicare....

Doesn't mean it can't be done. Lift the payroll tax cap, raise the
retirement age to 70, and

- change the way the COLA is calcuated

An 'honest' COLA is just that : Keeping People
Even {Equal} with the Cost of Living on an Annual
basis; and nothing more; and nothing less.

Changing the 'calculation' by some Arbitrary Rules
to Short-Change the Retirees is just that Robbing
from the Retirees. {Violating the Social Contract}

and
you've got SS' funding mechanism fixed. Medicare is harder, and probably
will have to be reformed to being a high-deductable plan OR experience a
significant (400%?) increase in its payroll tax.

It's just arithmetic.



Whether it's wise or not is another matter entirely.

Eventually all the money will be spent and it is no longer sustainable
and cuts must be made.... *that's unsustainable.

There is no practical way to indefinitely redistribute wealth,
eventually there is no wealth to distribute, the
*law-of-diminishing-returns* .

Yet it must occur. Adam Smith was correct, in my view, when he noted
that without redistribution, you'll eventually return to a feudal society..

Conservative economics acknowledges the need for redistributive mechanisms.

JG

RHF wrote:
On Nov 16, 10:13 am, John Galt wrote:
Beam Me Up Scotty wrote:



John Galt wrote:
Beam Me Up Scotty wrote:
John Galt wrote:
Beam Me Up Scotty wrote:
John Galt wrote:
dave wrote:
Beam Me Up Scotty wrote:
Freedom is Libertarian, and it may be gone for ever, Socialism has
never
worked and was extinct before it ever lived.
What? Don't tell the Europeans.
Why not? They're not socialist. They're social democracies.
HUGE difference.
JG
Do you think the Europeans will decide to defend themselves and pay for
their Socialism?
Eventually, yes. The younger generation in Europe is much more concerned
about fiscal responsibility (and sustainable social welfare systems)
than their parents are.
Oxymoron: "sustainable Social welfare"
No. You can do social welfare sustainably. That's just arithmetic.
Social security and Medicare....
Doesn't mean it can't be done. Lift the payroll tax cap, raise the
retirement age to 70, and


More taxes kill jobs and mean less being paid into SS as is happening now.

- change the way the COLA is calcuated

An 'honest' COLA is just that : Keeping People
Even {Equal} with the Cost of Living on an Annual
basis; and nothing more; and nothing less.

Changing the 'calculation' by some Arbitrary Rules
to Short-Change the Retirees is just that Robbing
from the Retirees. {Violating the Social Contract}

and
you've got SS' funding mechanism fixed. Medicare is harder, and probably
will have to be reformed to being a high-deductable plan OR experience a
significant (400%?) increase in its payroll tax.

It's just arithmetic.



Whether it's wise or not is another matter entirely.
Eventually all the money will be spent and it is no longer sustainable
and cuts must be made.... that's unsustainable.
There is no practical way to indefinitely redistribute wealth,
eventually there is no wealth to distribute, the
*law-of-diminishing-returns* .
Yet it must occur. Adam Smith was correct, in my view, when he noted
that without redistribution, you'll eventually return to a feudal society..

Conservative economics acknowledges the need for redistributive mechanisms.

JG




--