On Nov 15, 7:52*am, wrote:
On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 04:52:08 -0800 (PST), RHF

wrote:

The Europeans do not have the Will and the
Capital to Fully Defend themselves on their
own.

Wanna bet that THEY would be the first to lose millions
in a war---(assuming the Soviets)---and that IF they
all had the same nuclear technology and stockpiles of
weaponry---what a massive mess it would be?

WE took on the task of that role--providing the huge
atomic arsenal---to counter the Soviet threat. *

So any convential war would first put those whom you
disparage at greater risk than us.

Once the USA is Bankrupt in the next Decade
and can no longer support it's Military and resigns
as a Global Peacekeeper: The Europeans will be
at the 'mercy' of Russia, China, India and OPEC.

It's been known for decades and decades that the
natural resources of the Soviet Union are comparable to
ours---just that much of it lies under the tundra
(iron, minerals, etc)

- If you're so ****ing concerned with global
- threats---why in hell would you sound like you
- supported the corruption of reaganism, his voodoo
- ecnomics and the dim-witted idiot that put it back in
- place?

Reagan is Dead and Name Calling is a tired old
Liberal-Fascist technique : No Facts.

Obama-Nomics© and Excessive "Zombie" Spending
and Massive "Zombie" Taxes are Today's Reality
http://doosmdayclockradio.files.word...ama-zombie.jpg
Obama-Nomics© is socialism, Socialism. SOCIALISM !
http://www.classicalvalues.com/Obama-socialism_0.jpg

On Nov 15, 3:51*pm, "I M @ good guy" wrote:
On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 15:01:33 -0500, Beam Me Up Scotty



wrote:
dave wrote:
Beam Me Up Scotty wrote:

Do you think the Europeans will decide to defend themselves and pay for
their Socialism?

How will that work? * They barely have any economy as it is... *Add in
the 20% it will cost to keep a real army and they will be pushing 95%
taxes for the average worker. *It will also drop their GDP to a -19..5%
GDP.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/ee.html

GDP
0.9% (2008 est.)
country comparison to the world: 181
3% (2007 est.)
3.4% (2006 est.)

Expect as they use their GDP for military that it will fall and it is
generally within the margin of error so it will be flat to negative GDP.

- Gee, which part only has 7,000 income per capita?

You don't need 'Income' if the Government
Give you everything for Free.

On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:11:29 -0800, RHF wrote:

On Nov 16, 5:42Â*pm, Michael Coburn wrote:
On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 12:55:54 -0800, RHF wrote:
On Nov 15, 9:31Â*pm, John Galt wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 07:11:14 -0600, John Galt
wrote:

You apparently live in a parallel universe. Â*May I ask where you
get your news from?
I travel extensively for work in Europe, talk just as extensively
about these issues to my colleagues, and have relatives who live
and work in Belgium, Germany, Sweden, The Netherlands, Austria,
and Italy.

Ah, yes

Anecdotal evidence

How quaint

Nothing anecdotal about it, child.

My own nephew is now back at work because Sweden reclassified his
particular physical problem from "disability" to "able-bodied" as
part of the government's pullback of covered benefits of their
social welfer system. You can quite easily get a list of such things
that are no longer covered if you care to do some research. Same
thing for the Netherlands and Germany (at least) which have also
pulled back on coverage in their systems.

- - America's Senior US Citizens have Paid into the - - US Medicare
System for Decades and still Pay - - into it -but- Now face $500B in
Medicare Cut-Backs - - {reclassified as Cost-Savings} to Pay for
Obama-Care©

Medicare Cut-Backs = $500B

Yup.

= Medicare Cost-Savings -via- Denial of
Benefits

LIE

-via- Denial of Services

LIE

-via- Denial of Claims

LIE

HERE'S the deal. Medicare represents 40 million customers. The
Customers will be telling the providers what they will pay for the
services. And they will pay $500B less over the next ten years than what
was being forecast. The Providers will take the lower reimbursements and
lump it. That is the _ONLY way that the rising costs of health care can
be controlled. There is no free lunch and market power wins. Granny
still gets the services. The tax payers simply pay less.

--
"Those are my opinions and you can't have em" -- Bart Simpson

On 11/16/09 23:45 , Michael Coburn wrote:




The tax payers simply pay less.



The ultimate fiction.

On Nov 16, 9:45*pm, Michael Coburn wrote:
On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:11:29 -0800, RHF wrote:
On Nov 16, 5:42*pm, Michael Coburn wrote:
On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 12:55:54 -0800, RHF wrote:
On Nov 15, 9:31*pm, John Galt wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 07:11:14 -0600, John Galt
wrote:

You apparently live in a parallel universe. *May I ask where you
get your news from?
I travel extensively for work in Europe, talk just as extensively
about these issues to my colleagues, and have relatives who live
and work in Belgium, Germany, Sweden, The Netherlands, Austria,
and Italy.

Ah, yes

Anecdotal evidence

How quaint

Nothing anecdotal about it, child.

My own nephew is now back at work because Sweden reclassified his
particular physical problem from "disability" to "able-bodied" as
part of the government's pullback of covered benefits of their
social welfer system. You can quite easily get a list of such things
that are no longer covered if you care to do some research. Same
thing for the Netherlands and Germany (at least) which have also
pulled back on coverage in their systems.

- - America's Senior US Citizens have Paid into the - - US Medicare
System for Decades and still Pay - - into it -but- Now face $500B in
Medicare Cut-Backs - - {reclassified as Cost-Savings} to Pay for
Obama-Care©

Medicare Cut-Backs = $500B

Yup.

= Medicare Cost-Savings -via- Denial of
Benefits

LIE

-via- Denial of Services

LIE

-via- Denial of Claims

LIE

- HERE'S the deal.

Spoken like a good little Obama-Bot©

Prez Obama -says- Here's The Deal . . .
-and- the Obama-Bot© all repeat
here's the deal, Here's The Deal. HERE'S THE DEAL !
here's the deal, Here's The Deal. HERE'S THE DEAL !
here's the deal, Here's The Deal. HERE'S THE DEAL !

-*Medicare represents 40 million customers. *The

NO - Medicare Represents 40 Million "Patients" :
Who are American US Senior Citizens that are
Forced in to the Medicare System by Law which
'makes' them CLIENTS of Medicare -not- Customers.
Customers get to pick-and-choose -while-
Clients are Dictated-To by Medicare by Law.

- The Customers will be telling the providers what
- they will pay for the services.

NO - Medicare will Short Change the Doctors
-aka- The Providers and those Providers will STOP
'providing' those Services. -aka- Medicare Care

- And they will pay $500B less over the next ten
- years than what was being forecast.

That is the 'claim'.

-*The Providers will take the lower reimbursements
- and lump it.

Some Providers may . . .
While many/most Providers may STOP 'providing'
those Services. -aka- Medicare Care and Tell the
US Government {Medicare} to LUMP IT !

-*That is the _ONLY way that the rising costs
- of health care can be controlled.

"THE ONLY WAY" rotfl oaoa

There are 'other' Ways including Tort Reform
and Elimination Out-of-State Restrictions on
Medical Insurance.

-*There is no free lunch and market power wins.

Yes - "There is no free lunch"

-and- NOT PAYING THE BILL
SHUTS DOWN THE MARKET.

- Granny still gets the services.

NO Granny gets stuck with $500B of Medicare Cuts.

REALITY CHECK ON THE FACTS :

Medicare {The US Government} is the Doctor's actual
"The Customer" {Payer}; not the Senior Citizen 'Patient'.

When "The Customer" {Payer} Does Not Pay : Then
the Doctor will stop seeing those 'Patients'.
-result- Denial {Cut-Back} of Services to the 'Patient'.

Now the Money that the "The Customer" is Called
a Savings and can be Spent on Obama-Care©.

- The tax payers simply pay less.

NO - The US Government Ends Up Spending the
same amount of Money -but- Redirects $500B of
Medicare Spending from Medicare {Cut-Backs} to
$500B of new Obama-Care© Spending.
-note- Prez Obama claims that this is Revenue
"Neutral" {Balanced-Out} and Cost 'us' nothing.
! D'Oh Hello Prez Obama $500B of Spending
IS $500B OF SPENDING !
-and- $500B of Non-Spending for Medicare is a
CUT-BACK in Patient Spending
CUT-BACK in Patient Services
CUT-BACK in Patient Care
SHORT CHANGING AMERICA's SENIOR US CITIZENS

WAY TO GO PREZ OBAMA ! ~ RHF

-fyi- Talk to an American Born US Doctor : Who
has been in the Business of a Private Medical
Practice for 10 Years or More in the USA :
* They will tell you about the reality of Medicare
Payments for Patient's Services/Care.
* They will tell you about Limiting the Number of
Medicare Patients because of Lack of Adequate
Reimbursement from Medicare.
* They will tell you about how Medicare has
Limited the type of Patient Care that they
can provide as a result of so called Medicare
Cost 'Containment' {Cuts in Fees for Service}

- --
- "Those are my opinions and you can't have em" -- Bart Simpson

REALITY CHECK ON THE $500B SAVINGS :
The Unintended Consequences of $500B of Medicare
Cost Saving {What very well might happen} :
American Senior US Citizens -aka- Medicare 'Patients'
can not see their Doctors for routine Office Visits due to
$500B in Medicare Cuts : The 'Patients' eventually go
to the Hospital for Emergency Treatment {cause they
could not see their Doctor due to the Cuts} and end up
Costing Medicare more, & More. & MORE MONEY !
The $500B of Doctors Cost Savings becomes $500B
or more of new more expensive Hospital and Emergency
Hospital Medicare Spending - oops, Oops. OOPS !

On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 03:47:38 -0800, RHF wrote:

On Nov 16, 9:45Â*pm, Michael Coburn wrote:
On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:11:29 -0800, RHF wrote:
On Nov 16, 5:42Â*pm, Michael Coburn wrote:
On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 12:55:54 -0800, RHF wrote:
On Nov 15, 9:31Â*pm, John Galt wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 07:11:14 -0600, John Galt
wrote:

You apparently live in a parallel universe. Â*May I ask where
you get your news from?
I travel extensively for work in Europe, talk just as
extensively about these issues to my colleagues, and have
relatives who live and work in Belgium, Germany, Sweden, The
Netherlands, Austria, and Italy.

Ah, yes

Anecdotal evidence

How quaint

Nothing anecdotal about it, child.

My own nephew is now back at work because Sweden reclassified his
particular physical problem from "disability" to "able-bodied" as
part of the government's pullback of covered benefits of their
social welfer system. You can quite easily get a list of such
things that are no longer covered if you care to do some
research. Same thing for the Netherlands and Germany (at least)
which have also pulled back on coverage in their systems.

- - America's Senior US Citizens have Paid into the - - US Medicare
System for Decades and still Pay - - into it -but- Now face $500B in
Medicare Cut-Backs - - {reclassified as Cost-Savings} to Pay for
Obama-Care©

Medicare Cut-Backs = $500B

Yup.

= Medicare Cost-Savings -via- Denial of Benefits

LIE

-via- Denial of Services

LIE

-via- Denial of Claims

LIE

- HERE'S the deal.

Spoken like a good little Obama-Bot©

Prez Obama -says- Here's The Deal . . . -and- the Obama-Bot© all repeat
here's the deal, Here's The Deal. HERE'S THE DEAL ! here's the deal,
Here's The Deal. HERE'S THE DEAL ! here's the deal, Here's The Deal.
HERE'S THE DEAL !

-Â*Medicare represents 40 million customers. Â*The

NO - Medicare Represents 40 Million "Patients" : Who are American US
Senior Citizens that are Forced in to the Medicare System by Law which
'makes' them CLIENTS of Medicare -not- Customers. Customers get to
pick-and-choose -while- Clients are Dictated-To by Medicare by Law.

You are a lying pig. But it is what you do best. Customers for medical
care are very limmited as to the ability to "pick-and-choose", liar.
They are far better served by the market power of solidarity.

- The Customers will be telling the providers what - they will pay for
the services.

NO - Medicare will Short Change the Doctors -aka- The Providers and
those Providers will STOP 'providing' those Services. -aka- Medicare
Care

Nice lie... You do so well at it.

- And they will pay $500B less over the next ten - years than what was
being forecast.

That is the 'claim'.

-Â*The Providers will take the lower reimbursements - and lump it.

Some Providers may . . .
While many/most Providers may STOP 'providing' those Services. -aka-
Medicare Care and Tell the US Government {Medicare} to LUMP IT !

And where will they get their INCOME, moronic lying pig? You think their
will be a supply NEW customers that will allow the providers to just
shift from these customers to this new imported group? You are not only
a lair. You are also a moron. The number of rich people seeking medical
services is quite limited.

-Â*That is the _ONLY way that the rising costs - of health care can be
controlled.

"THE ONLY WAY" rotfl oaoa

There are 'other' Ways including Tort Reform and Elimination
Out-of-State Restrictions on Medical Insurance.

Two *&@%$^& total "nits".

-Â*There is no free lunch and market power wins.

Yes - "There is no free lunch"

-and- NOT PAYING THE BILL
SHUTS DOWN THE MARKET.

Stupidity repeated just gets more and more stupid with each repetition.

- Granny still gets the services.

NO Granny gets stuck with $500B of Medicare Cuts.

REALITY CHECK ON THE FACTS :

Medicare {The US Government} is the Doctor's actual "The Customer"
{Payer}; not the Senior Citizen 'Patient'.

Yes. Government is like a UNION monopsony using solidarity to control
rates. That is the reality and it why there will be no cut in services.

When "The Customer" {Payer} Does Not Pay : Then the Doctor will stop
seeing those 'Patients'. -result- Denial {Cut-Back} of Services to the
'Patient'.

What will the provider do if the provider does not have patients? Will
he retire and go fishing? We have this system called H1B which allows us
to import medical professionals from other countries. And according to
all the data I have been able to find, these foreign professionals are
very much underpaid in their current countries. It is really interesting
how the freepers LOVE free trade and monopoly power until it bites them
in the ass.

Now the Money that the "The Customer" is Called a Savings and can be
Spent on Obama-Care©.

Irrelevant, actually. We are spending too much on these services. Try
comparing the costs of health care in this country with all the other
civilized nations. You sick puppies live in a little stupidity bubble.

- The tax payers simply pay less.

NO - The US Government Ends Up Spending the same amount of Money -but-
Redirects $500B of Medicare Spending from Medicare {Cut-Backs} to $500B
of new Obama-Care© Spending.

So what's your point??? We will have increased access to health care and
a lower price of health care.

-note- Prez Obama claims that this is Revenue "Neutral" {Balanced-Out}
and Cost 'us' nothing. ! D'Oh Hello Prez Obama $500B of Spending IS
$500B OF SPENDING !

Obama is correct and you are a lying pig.

-and- $500B of Non-Spending for Medicare is a CUT-BACK in Patient
Spending

Yep.

CUT-BACK in Patient Services

LIE

CUT-BACK in Patient Care

LIE

SHORT CHANGING AMERICA's SENIOR US CITIZENS

LIE

WAY TO GO PREZ OBAMA ! ~ RHF

-fyi- Talk to an American Born US Doctor : Who has been in the Business
of a Private Medical Practice for 10 Years or More in the USA : * They
will tell you about the reality of Medicare Payments for Patient's
Services/Care. * They will tell you about Limiting the Number of
Medicare Patients because of Lack of Adequate Reimbursement from
Medicare.

1. They will see LESS patients and have lower incomes in that case,
because there is not going to be a change in the number of sick people

2. They can be replaced and will be replaced by competent providers from
other countries.

* They will tell you about how Medicare has Limited the type of Patient
Care that they can provide as a result of so called Medicare Cost
'Containment' {Cuts in Fees for Service}

They will protect their livelihood like anyone else. They will distort
the reality in order to protect their incomes like any other group of
human beings.

- --
- "Those are my opinions and you can't have em" -- Bart Simpson

REALITY CHECK ON THE $500B SAVINGS :
The Unintended Consequences of $500B of Medicare Cost Saving {What very
well might happen} : American Senior US Citizens -aka- Medicare
'Patients' can not see their Doctors for routine Office Visits due to
$500B in Medicare Cuts : The 'Patients' eventually go to the Hospital
for Emergency Treatment {cause they could not see their Doctor due to
the Cuts} and end up Costing Medicare more, & More. & MORE MONEY ! The
$500B of Doctors Cost Savings becomes $500B or more of new more
expensive Hospital and Emergency Hospital Medicare Spending - oops,
Oops. OOPS !
.


Boogerman, Boogerman, Boogerman.


--
"Those are my opinions and you can't have em" -- Bart Simpson

On Nov 17, 11:21*am, Michael Coburn wrote:
On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 03:47:38 -0800, RHF wrote:
On Nov 16, 9:45*pm, Michael Coburn wrote:
On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:11:29 -0800, RHF wrote:
On Nov 16, 5:42*pm, Michael Coburn wrote:
On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 12:55:54 -0800, RHF wrote:
On Nov 15, 9:31*pm, John Galt wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 07:11:14 -0600, John Galt
wrote:

You apparently live in a parallel universe. *May I ask where
you get your news from?
I travel extensively for work in Europe, talk just as
extensively about these issues to my colleagues, and have
relatives who live and work in Belgium, Germany, Sweden, The
Netherlands, Austria, and Italy.

Ah, yes

Anecdotal evidence

How quaint

Nothing anecdotal about it, child.

My own nephew is now back at work because Sweden reclassified his
particular physical problem from "disability" to "able-bodied" as
part of the government's pullback of covered benefits of their
social welfer system. You can quite easily get a list of such
things that are no longer covered if you care to do some
research. Same thing for the Netherlands and Germany (at least)
which have also pulled back on coverage in their systems.

- - America's Senior US Citizens have Paid into the - - US Medicare
System for Decades and still Pay - - into it -but- Now face $500B in
Medicare Cut-Backs - - {reclassified as Cost-Savings} to Pay for
Obama-Care©

Medicare Cut-Backs = $500B

Yup.

= Medicare Cost-Savings -via- Denial of Benefits

LIE

-via- Denial of Services

LIE

-via- Denial of Claims

LIE

- HERE'S the deal.

Spoken like a good little Obama-Bot©

Prez Obama -says- Here's The Deal . . . -and- the Obama-Bot© all repeat
here's the deal, Here's The Deal. HERE'S THE DEAL ! here's the deal,
Here's The Deal. HERE'S THE DEAL ! here's the deal, Here's The Deal.
HERE'S THE DEAL !

-*Medicare represents 40 million customers. *The

NO - Medicare Represents 40 Million "Patients" : Who are American US
Senior Citizens that are Forced in to the Medicare System by Law which
'makes' them CLIENTS of Medicare -not- Customers. Customers get to
pick-and-choose -while- Clients are Dictated-To by Medicare by Law.

- Michael Coburn -wrote-
- You are a lying pig.

Michael Coburn 'lying pig' that is Liberal-Fascist
Name Calling and NOT FACTS based in reality.

US Troops wearing un colors.
www.chuckbaldwinlive.com
cuhulin

Toxic wrote:

There are so many diehard right wingers here, that it won't matter how
effective Obama is at the resurrection of the nation, there will be some
to argue against him.


Diehard right wingers sound like Foghorn Leghorn?

"Look at me while I'm talkin' to ya, BOY"



mike




--
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __
/ /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ / /
/ /\ \/ /\'Think tanks cleaned cheap' /\ \/ /
/_/ \/_/ \/_/ \/_/ \/_/ \/_/ \/_/ \/_/

Densa International©
For the OTHER two percent.



Due to the insane amount of spam and garbage,
I block all postings with a Gmail, Google Mail,
Google Groups or HOTMAIL address.
I also filter everything from a .cn server.


For solutions which may work for you, please check:

http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/

wrote:
On Nov 15, 8:14 pm, RHF wrote:

- You wouldn't know a socialist if one kicked you.


Typical US definition: "I don't like it, it must be SOCIALIST!!"



Does that tell you anything? Socialists are the root of damn near all
our problems
--