On Dec 20, 1:36*am, Bob Dobbs wrote:
How about a general outline of your procedure, like do you start with the
ferrite only then add an external loop after you hear something, and a second
after the first is optimized, going back and forth massaging the controls as
needed? That's sorta how I used to do it with the SW-77.

That is weird you ask that because a while back I was going to
start a thread on that subject but I didn't think anyone would bother
to engage so I didn't bother.


First and foremost, you really need to have either a lazy susan
or make something that spins 360. If you're using a radio that has
a speaker that fires just from the front without any venting on the
back of the radio to allow you to hear something clearly.... IMO you
may want to rig up an extension speaker or you'll find yourself having
to move around as your table turns and it really takes the
fun out of it or makes it impossible IMO. Luckily for me the P780 has
the venting on the back so I can hear a signal if it's faint without
having to add on a speaker or getting up.

When I'm doing a session I will use just the radio barefoot on the
table because if you have the loop ( IMO) sitting next to it - you
aren't getting a true "hearing" so too speak.....unless you would
happen to have your loop tuned 'exactly' to the spot you're on - and
that just doesn't happen IMO. You wouldn't get anything
accomplished that way.

I'll tune to either a faint spot or a spot that sounds like crap -
with two or three stations jumbled together. Then I'll rotate the
table to see where I stand signal wise. For about the last year or two
(not
last night) I just go to an empty spot where there's nothing, that's
what is so cool - when you go to what seems is a empty spot and find
something there by rotating your radio and then breaking out a loop to
enhance it.

But when I see where I stand - then I'll break out Dave's loop and if
between using the loop and the table - - and I still don't get what I
want - - then I'll sit the Radio Shack loop right next to the radio.

But sometimes that will make it worse, like you said, then you start
massaging them. I've found that more often than not - - the second
loop has to be pulled somewhat away from the radio itself and tuned
off freq. I'm sure you know what I mean. It just a matter of, like
Dave said, having patience and remembering basically where you were
before you tried to get the signal better and screwed it up...lol.

The real kicker is when you use THREE LOOPS and in that case there is
no way I can use the 36X39 and Dave's loop and the rat shack....either
Dave's has got to go or the bigger one....it's simply impossible. But
I can use the two from rat shacks along with the five sided loop and
make it work. Very rarely do I use three, but I will do it if I don't
get the desired result from the two.

I wish others would pipe in so I could maybe pickup a different
technique.



With the E1 there isn't
much directionality to speak of with the whip, so the loop is generally
connected before I even start looking

Just curious Bob, why did you get a receiver that doesn't have a
internal stick? Do you DX the BCB with something else or is that
problem solved satisfactorally for you the way it is now.



with its tuning all the way at one end or
the other, then when something interesting shows up, I tune 'for' it and rotate
the loop to maximize, and only if there's something strong that's interfering do
I try to do a null. Occasionally if there's a strong local I will tune to it to
increase the null potential rather than reinforce the target, but that's only
rarely an issue.

Exactly. :-)


All that's when I take the portable out to the park or
somewhere away from the house, otherwise I use one of the external outdoor HAM
antennas on one of those rigs since they tend to have better receivers even
without synchronous detection.

Oh really? That doesn't surprise me from what I have read. I have
never owned a receiver that had synch. I know what it does and all ( I
think) ....but how would a radio with synch be able to better what I
do with my technique/equipment on the BCB? Some make it sound like if
you don't have it you're screwed and the other side doesn't make that
big a deal about it. What gives?

Gregg wrote in news:4e401c62-aece-42eb-aaeb-
:

On Dec 19, 8:10*pm, Lopez Gomez wrote:

I've seen Dave's collection of custom-made crystal radios and loops at
local hamfests.

Have you really? Did you get to meet him by chance? I'd really like to
try
some of his radio and regen receivers, that would be a blast.



I've known Dave for years. He and another fellow operated an electronic
parts supply store in Corning, NY. Their main customer was Corning Inc.,
but probably anyone who has worked in any electrical/electronics field in
the Elmira-Corning-Painted Post area of upstate NY has done business there,
and knows Dave.

I believe he started his crystal radio kit business as a personal hobby
about 6 years ago.

On Dec 20, 4:51*am, Bob Dobbs wrote:
Gregg wrote:
On Dec 20, 1:36*am, Bob Dobbs wrote:
How about a general outline of your procedure, like do you start with the
ferrite only then add an external loop after you hear something, and a second
after the first is optimized, going back and forth massaging the controls as
needed? That's sorta how I used to do it with the SW-77.

That is weird you ask that because a while back I was going to
start a thread on that subject but I didn't think anyone would bother
to engage so I didn't bother.

Do like Cuhu and post whatever,
regardless if you think anybody gives a ****.

Ha! It use to annoy me because I would be all engrossed in a thread
about a antenna or radio and then read about "the wimmins
across the pond." I actually enjoy it in a way now. Ha.



First and foremost, you really need to have either a lazy susan
or make something that spins 360. If you're using a radio that has
a speaker that fires just from the front without any venting on the
back of the radio to allow you to hear something clearly.... IMO you
may want to rig up an extension speaker or you'll find yourself having
to move around as your table turns and it really takes the
fun out of it or makes it impossible IMO. Luckily for me the P780 has
the venting on the back so I can hear a signal if it's faint without
having to add on a speaker or getting up.

Back when I had the SW-77 I had a fairly quiet listening space
so speaker aiming wasn't critical, or I used the cans.

Yeah, my space is quiet fortunately. Sometimes quiet just seems to not
be enough - you know? When I have tried the earphones with other
radios I would find my cans either getting pulled or entangled. I was
thinking of mounting a rat shack external speaker to the back of my
table but really it would be a waste because the GE is basically the
only radio I use on the table with the loops.


*

When I'm doing a session I will use just the radio barefoot on the
table because if you have the loop ( IMO) sitting next to it - you
aren't getting a true "hearing" so too speak.....unless you would
happen to have your loop tuned 'exactly' to the spot you're on - and
that just doesn't happen IMO. You wouldn't get anything
accomplished that way.

I'll tune to either a faint spot or a spot that sounds like crap -
with two or three stations jumbled together. Then I'll rotate the
table to see where I stand signal wise.

That was one of my earlier protocols, to find a pileup and try to separate a
bigger (louder) one out of the bunch to try and catch an ID.

Exactly.



For about the last year or two
(not
last night) I just go to an empty spot where there's nothing, that's
what is so cool - when you go to what seems is a empty spot and find
something there by rotating your radio and then breaking out a loop to
enhance it.

I haven't tried to probe any holes or gaps in the spectrum
because in SoCal there aren't any at night.
The scope on my Pro 3 looks like a picket fence.

Lucky you. I don't have a tool like that.


I try to never have to remember but just watch the S-meter
and reverse any action that starts to show a decrease.

Unfortunately I don't have the luxury of the S-meter or I'm sure I'd
more than likely do it that way also.



The real kicker is when you use THREE LOOPS and in that case there is
no way I can use the 36X39 and Dave's loop and the rat shack....either
Dave's has got to go or the bigger one....it's simply impossible. But
I can use the two from rat shacks along with the five sided loop and
make it work. Very rarely do I use three, but I will do it if I don't
get the desired result from the two.

curious; at what point of diminishing return
do additional loops become ineffective?

It just all depends, I know that isn't really giving you an answer,
but you're right - - about the point of diminished returns. You can
tell. Sometimes even though you have all the tools right in front of
you, mother nature lets you know she's the boss and it doesn't matter
what you have. ;-)




I wish others would pipe in so I could maybe pickup a different
technique.

I imagine we pretty much have it sussed out,
with the variety of techniques already discussed

I agree.



but you never know who'll surprise us with something novel. *

I'll crap my britches and be happy about it if someone can add on to
this thread about something we haven't covered or thought about.



With the E1 there isn't
much directionality to speak of with the whip, so the loop is generally
connected before I even start looking

Just curious Bob, why did you get a receiver that doesn't have a
internal stick?

Without rehashing the [ferrite or lack thereof in the E1] debate,
I'll just say that's the way it came and the many nice features unavailable in
any other portable outweighed any benefit from having a directional antenna
built in, IMO. Besides I use it far more as a bedside somnific on local
stations, or sometimes WWV.

I understand. Makes sense.



Do you DX the BCB with something else or is that
problem solved satisfactorally for you the way it is now.

Mostly at night (only time to AMBCB DX) I'm home indoors
with easier access to HAM radios, than going out to some park
with a portable, extra batteries, wire and/or loop, and headphones,
not to mention all the defensive gadgets a prudent city dweller has to carry.

Ha, defensive gadgets- sound like me - maybe another OT thread or over
to the knife or survival group huh?



Oh really? That doesn't surprise me from what I have read. I have
never owned a receiver that had synch. I know what it does and all ( I
think) ....but how would a radio with synch be able to better what I
do with my technique/equipment on the BCB?

If you're getting a whistle from some 9kc spaced station,
the synch would eliminate that annoyance, plus it also tends to smooth out the
QSB related distortion that inevitably seems to crop up during an awaited
station ID *g

OK



Some make it sound like if
you don't have it you're screwed and the other side doesn't make that
big a deal about it. What gives?

It's usenet, where you can get 3 opinions for every pair of participants.

For me, after the 2010, it became a litmus for portables,
even if it only gets enabled occasionally.

10-4. Little bit of snow here in Batavia. ;-P

I own an old GE P780-E Radio.I bought it at Goodwill about twelve years
ago, it doesn't work though, or barely works, whatever.

About eight or nine sumpin years ago, I saw a very good website about
how to make your own loop antennas.

Don't start pickin on my wimmins wayyyy over yonder across the big
pond.Last night I received another email from that married Irish woman
wayyyyy over yonder across the big pond in Bognor Regis,England.She
said, Don't blow yourself up with those sockets.
cuhulin

Gregg wrote:
On Dec 19, 6:25 am, dave wrote:

From where? Graveyard channels are a very special kind of BCBDX. It
takes a lot of skill and patience.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I don't know about the skill part Dave but it definitely takes
patience. I would find myself at times kind of wrinkling my
forehead, know what I mean? Almost like squinting but
not, then catch myself and relax.

I know this one guy who has the P780 and he really has
his tricked out. One of the mods is he added a earphone
jack to his, that would definitely be a nice add on feature
to have.

Why do you say it's a very special kind of DX? I know there
is more hash and stations fighting to get in there if that's what you
mean.

I say it because there are lots of stations on those channels, and it
takes skill to separate them enough to positively ID one. Anybody can
hear a clear channel station.