wrote:
Aero comm is mostly in USB on HF. Have not heard them in AM
lately,maybe a l-o-o-o-ng time ago it was. Amelia Earhart used it in
the 30's..

Oh come on. Hams started using SSB in the 1950s.

From the wikipedia entry on Curtis Lemay:

"LeMay was an active amateur radio operator and held a succession of call
signs; K0GRL, K4FRA, and W6EZV. He held these calls respectively while
stationed at Offutt AFB, Washington, D.C. and when he retired in
California. K0GRL is still the call sign of the Strategic Air Command
Memorial Amateur Radio Club.He was famous for being on the air on
amateur bands while flying on board SAC bombers. LeMay became aware that
the new single sideband (SSB) technology offered a big advantage over
Amplitude Modulation (AM) for SAC aircraft operating long distances from
their bases. In conjunction with Art Collins (W0CXX) of Collins Radio,
he established SSB as the radio standard for SAC bombers in 1957."

It did not become the standard for commercial aircraft until later.
(anyone have a real date?)

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
To help restaurants, as part of the "stimulus package", everyone must order
dessert. As part of the socialized health plan, you are forbidden to eat it. :-)

On Nov 15, 4:19*am, "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"
wrote:
wrote:
Aero comm is mostly in USB on HF. Have not heard them in AM
lately,maybe a l-o-o-o-ng time ago it was. Amelia Earhart used it in
the 30's..

Oh come on. Hams started using SSB in the 1950s.

From the wikipedia entry on Curtis Lemay:

"LeMay was an active amateur radio operator and held a succession of call
signs; K0GRL, K4FRA, and W6EZV. He held these calls respectively while
stationed at Offutt AFB, Washington, D.C. and when he retired in
California. K0GRL is still the call sign of the Strategic Air Command
Memorial Amateur Radio Club.He was famous for being on the air on
amateur bands while flying on board SAC bombers. LeMay became aware that
the new single sideband (SSB) technology offered a big advantage over
Amplitude Modulation (AM) for SAC aircraft operating long distances from
their bases. In conjunction with Art Collins (W0CXX) of Collins Radio,
he established SSB as the radio standard for SAC bombers in 1957."

It did not become the standard for commercial aircraft until later.
(anyone have a real date?)

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
To help restaurants, as part of the "stimulus package", everyone must order
dessert. As part of the socialized health plan, you are forbidden to eat it. :-)

We have dealt with Aviation/aero comm here. Not Amateur Radio.

wrote:
We have dealt with Aviation/aero comm here. Not Amateur Radio.

Obviously you did not read what I posted. It was to establish a timeline.
Hams started experimenting with SSB (although it was first patented in the
1920's) in the 1950's.

This led a ham, Arthur Collins (of Collins radio) to propose it to
another ham, General Curtis LeMay, who was in charge of the US Air Force
to experiment with it on millitary aircraft.

There was a famous world tour of hams, with Collins, Wayne Green and others,
to show that SSB could provide the communications the Air Force required.

That was a success and with LeMay's urging, it was adopted by the Air Force.

Without Collins and LeMay being hams, SSB probably would not of been chosen
from among the other competing systems. So ham's use of SSB, and in particular
two hams (Collins and LeMay), it would have never been chosen by the Air Force,
and therefore not chosen for commercial air traffic.

So yes, ham radio useage of SSB was relevant to establish both how and when
it became used by millitary/commerical aircraft.

It was not the exact date commerical aircraft converted over, but it was a lot
more precsise than "Earhart (1937) did not use SSB".

And to keep it SWL relevant, you can listen to an AM broadcast on an SSB
radio, I do it all the time. It's called ECSS and is the basic
technology behind synchronous AM detection.

Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
To help restaurants, as part of the "stimulus package", everyone must order
dessert. As part of the socialized health plan, you are forbidden to eat it. :-)

On 11/15/10 24:29 , BDK wrote:
In ,
says...

On 11/14/10 09:39 , Mike S. wrote:
In ,
D. Peter wrote:
On 11/12/10 18:33 , Mike S. wrote:
In ,
wrote:
On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 21:16:38 -0800 (PST), RHF
wrote:

They are Talking about Shortwave Radio Numbers Stations on Fringe

And if you Listen to them,,, They Erase Your Mind !

Fringe TV
http://www.fox.com/fringe/

The "Fringe" TV Series
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fringe_%28TV_series%29

~ RHF
.

It seems like they added some distortion to the audio in the numbers
broadcast. They don't want to lose any viewers to shortwave radio.

Jim

Fun to catalog the technical errors ... like Peter removing a transistor
from the PCB without desoldering it ... or the soldering torch that the
shape-shifter used to insert it in the first place, which curiously made a
whirring sound like a drill! Also the private pilot talking to a tower on
an HF frequency, and in AM mode no less ... wasn't all that decommissioned
ages ago?



Actually, no.

Ok, but then the HF aero comms were all USB, and the numbers station was
tuned in AM mode. The pilot never changed modes on his receiver ...




HF aero comms are not all USB. Some are. Most are still AM. This
is due to the ability of AM signals of very low level to be noticed
while other comms are taking place, facilitating discovery in an
emergency when conditions are less than ideal.

Where are there any AM aero comms on HF? VHF and UHF, yes, but I haven't
heard any AM aero comms in, well, as long as I can remember, if ever.



International, especially over an ocean, require greater range
than V/U can deliver.

In article ,
says...

On 11/15/10 24:29 , BDK wrote:
In ,
says...

On 11/14/10 09:39 , Mike S. wrote:
In ,
D. Peter wrote:
On 11/12/10 18:33 , Mike S. wrote:
In ,
wrote:
On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 21:16:38 -0800 (PST), RHF
wrote:

They are Talking about Shortwave Radio Numbers Stations on Fringe

And if you Listen to them,,, They Erase Your Mind !

Fringe TV
http://www.fox.com/fringe/

The "Fringe" TV Series
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fringe_%28TV_series%29

~ RHF
.

It seems like they added some distortion to the audio in the numbers
broadcast. They don't want to lose any viewers to shortwave radio.

Jim

Fun to catalog the technical errors ... like Peter removing a transistor
from the PCB without desoldering it ... or the soldering torch that the
shape-shifter used to insert it in the first place, which curiously made a
whirring sound like a drill! Also the private pilot talking to a tower on
an HF frequency, and in AM mode no less ... wasn't all that decommissioned
ages ago?



Actually, no.

Ok, but then the HF aero comms were all USB, and the numbers station was
tuned in AM mode. The pilot never changed modes on his receiver ...




HF aero comms are not all USB. Some are. Most are still AM. This
is due to the ability of AM signals of very low level to be noticed
while other comms are taking place, facilitating discovery in an
emergency when conditions are less than ideal.

Where are there any AM aero comms on HF? VHF and UHF, yes, but I haven't
heard any AM aero comms in, well, as long as I can remember, if ever.



International, especially over an ocean, require greater range
than V/U can deliver.




Yeah, I've never heard anything but SSB aero comms.

--
BDK- Top of the government shill heap for over 10 years running!

D. Peter Maus wrote:


HF aero comms are not all USB. Some are. Most are still AM. This is due
to the ability of AM signals of very low level to be noticed while other
comms are taking place, facilitating discovery in an emergency when
conditions are less than ideal.




VHF/UHF aero is AM; HF aero is SSB. You can have half a dozen SSB
transmitters all talking at once on the same frequency with much less
harm than there'd be with several AM carriers. I don't think
intelligibility has anything to do with it.

On 11/15/10 07:34 , BDK wrote:
In ,
says...

On 11/15/10 24:29 , BDK wrote:
In ,
says...

On 11/14/10 09:39 , Mike S. wrote:
In ,
D. Peter wrote:
On 11/12/10 18:33 , Mike S. wrote:
In ,
wrote:
On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 21:16:38 -0800 (PST), RHF
wrote:

They are Talking about Shortwave Radio Numbers Stations on Fringe

And if you Listen to them,,, They Erase Your Mind !

Fringe TV
http://www.fox.com/fringe/

The "Fringe" TV Series
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fringe_%28TV_series%29

~ RHF
.

It seems like they added some distortion to the audio in the numbers
broadcast. They don't want to lose any viewers to shortwave radio.

Jim

Fun to catalog the technical errors ... like Peter removing a transistor
from the PCB without desoldering it ... or the soldering torch that the
shape-shifter used to insert it in the first place, which curiously made a
whirring sound like a drill! Also the private pilot talking to a tower on
an HF frequency, and in AM mode no less ... wasn't all that decommissioned
ages ago?



Actually, no.

Ok, but then the HF aero comms were all USB, and the numbers station was
tuned in AM mode. The pilot never changed modes on his receiver ...




HF aero comms are not all USB. Some are. Most are still AM. This
is due to the ability of AM signals of very low level to be noticed
while other comms are taking place, facilitating discovery in an
emergency when conditions are less than ideal.

Where are there any AM aero comms on HF? VHF and UHF, yes, but I haven't
heard any AM aero comms in, well, as long as I can remember, if ever.



International, especially over an ocean, require greater range
than V/U can deliver.




Yeah, I've never heard anything but SSB aero comms.


I hear about as much AM as SSB.

On Nov 15, 2:54*am, "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"
wrote:
wrote:
We have dealt with Aviation/aero comm here. Not Amateur Radio.

Obviously you did not read what I posted. It was to establish a timeline.
Hams started experimenting with SSB (although it was first patented in the
1920's) in the 1950's.

This led a ham, Arthur Collins (of Collins radio) to propose it to
another ham, General Curtis LeMay, who was in charge of the US Air Force
to experiment with it on millitary aircraft.

There was a famous world tour of hams, with Collins, Wayne Green and others,
to *show that SSB could provide the communications the Air Force required.

That was a success and with LeMay's urging, it was adopted by the Air Force.

Without Collins and LeMay being hams, SSB probably would not of been chosen
from among the other competing systems. So ham's use of SSB, and in particular
two hams (Collins and LeMay), it would have never been chosen by the Air Force,
and therefore not chosen for commercial air traffic.

So yes, ham radio useage of SSB was relevant to establish both how and when
it became used by millitary/commerical aircraft.

It was not the exact date commerical aircraft converted over, but it was a lot
more precsise *than "Earhart (1937) did not use SSB".

And to keep it SWL relevant, you can listen to an AM broadcast on an SSB
radio, I do it all the time. It's called ECSS and is the basic
technology behind synchronous AM detection.

Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
To help restaurants, as part of the "stimulus package", everyone must order
dessert. As part of the socialized health plan, you are forbidden to eat it. :-)

Surplus {Low Cost} Radio Gear from WWII
became available to Amateur Radio Operators
and a technological trend began . . .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-sideband_modulation
-wrt- AN/ARC-5 Aircraft Transmitters
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/ARC-5

The History of Single Sideband Modulation
http://dj4br.home.t-link.de/ssb1e.htm
-by- Peter Weber DJ4BR
At the Bottom -click-on- Go to the Next Page...

A Short History of Single Sideband in Amateur Radio
-by- James W. Nash, K4HMS/V31AW
http://www.hamradiomarket.com/articles/SSBHistory.htm
Date given as 21st September 1947 - nitt?

?Why? : LSB Below 9 MHz and USB Above 9 MHz
http://www.ac6v.com/73.htm#LSB

On Nov 15, 5:39*am, dave wrote:
D. Peter Maus wrote:

HF aero comms are not all USB. Some are. Most are still AM. This is due
to the ability of AM signals of very low level to be noticed while other
comms are taking place, facilitating discovery in an emergency when
conditions are less than ideal.

- VHF/UHF aero is AM; HF aero is SSB.
-*You can have half a dozen SSB transmitters
- all talking at once on the same frequency with
- much less harm than there'd be with several
- AM carriers.
-*I don't think intelligibility has anything to do with it.

Dave for both AM a/o SSB Voice Communications
'Intelligibility' is everything : First you got to hear
them and second you have to understand them too.
-to-communicate-

Same relative Power Output AM 100W or SSB 100PEP
most times the Receiving Station will Report the SSB as
having a Strong and more Listenable Voice Signal than
the AM. - nitt? ~ RHF

On Nov 15, 8:39*am, dave wrote:
D. Peter Maus wrote:

HF aero comms are not all USB. Some are. Most are still AM. This is due
to the ability of AM signals of very low level to be noticed while other
comms are taking place, facilitating discovery in an emergency when
conditions are less than ideal.

VHF/UHF aero is AM; HF aero is SSB. *You can have half a dozen SSB
transmitters all talking at once on the same frequency with much less
harm than there'd be with several AM carriers. *I don't think
intelligibility has anything to do with it.

Yes,no AM on HF Aero nowdays. USB,usually.