On Feb 14, 1:13*pm, Joe from Kokomo wrote:
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On 11-02-14 10:19 AM, Joe from Kokomo wrote:

On 02/14/2011 06:51 AM, dave wrote:
On 02/13/2011 08:26 PM, RHF wrote:

-but- I still use Antenna Insulators between the 'Poly'

Why?

On 2/14/2011 10:34 AM, dave wrote:

If you use insulating rope there is no need to buy insulators.

Well, that could be debatable. Do you have any way to quantify the RF
leakage of wet rope vs. a wet insulator to support your contention?

On 2/14/2011 1:15 PM, m II wrote:

Rainwater doesn't conduct very well.

Well, THAT'S debatable too. Sadly, in today's world, rainwater can
contain a lot of sulfuric acid (pollution from coal-fired power plants),
and H2SO4 is a -very- good conductor.

Sorry, a) I am old fashioned and b) I am also used to transmitting on my
antennas.

If you were just receiving and desperate to save a couple of bucks on
insulators, you -may- be able to get away with it (or not).

Joe from Kokomo,

There are All Sorts and Forms of Pollution in the Air :
Chemical + Particle + Mineral + Organic
-and-some-of-them-when-mixed-'conduct'-
An Antenna Support/Rigging Rope that has been
In-the-Air for a Year is a "Dirty'* Rope.
* Contaminated

The Soft Woven Rope can Absorb the Rain Water
-and- Now you have Water 'mixed' with what all the
Contaminates that have penetrated the Rope.
-result- The Rope is no longer as good an Insulator
as when it was New un-contaminated and dry.
-while-
The Hard Insulator has the Surface 'contamination'
Washed-Off.
-result- A Good 'Clean' Fully Functioning Insulator )

well that is how 'i' see it . . .
dirty dirty dirty - iane ~ RHF

If you're talking about a receiving antenna, there's really little loss
in using a piece of line tied directly to the antenna wire to maintain
tension.

But consider, that the line will be in contact with other
infrastructure. A tree, a pole. The house, or garage.....whatever you
use to support the block. And while dry, that may be no issue, when wet,
there's enough conductivity to take a nearby static strike up directly
into your front end. May not be the best result.

Using an egg insulator between the line and the wire of your antenna
allows that extra bit of isolation that may save your input. It also
allows a more secure mounting of the antenna, and attachment to your
tensioning line because the mechanical strain is almost entirely borne
by the insulator. Further, if correctly installed, the egg is, itself,
in compression, not tension, so even if damaged, there isn't an
immediate danger of release.

For a receiving antenna, there are few differences in performance. But
there are a few benefits to using an insulator mechanically. And there
may be benefits if there are static issues at your listening post.

A good quality ceramic egg is the better option. Both mechanically and
electrically, and will deteriorate less over time, when exposed to the
elements.



I have a skirt tuned multiband HF vertical, made entirely of aluminum
and plastic. It requires no guys, but I use them anyway due to hurricane
force winds some times. I have 4 [ea] Dacron antenna ropes, tied
directly to the radiating metal of the upper half of the vertical dipole
at about 22 feet AGL. The ropes are at a 45 degree angle and tied to
stakes in the ground.

Wet ropes, as described above, make no difference. Inductively coupled
energy from nearby lightning strikes will get directly into your
transmission line, regardless of your clean eggs. That's why you use Arc
Plugs or something similar.

http://www.mfjenterprises.com/pictures/MFJ-270.jpg

On Feb 15, 9:08*am, Bob Dobbs wrote:
dave wrote:

http://www.mfjenterprises.com/pictures/MFJ-270.jpg

Looks like the gas discharge type I have.
Somewhere I heard someone say that they go shorted when hit,
like a MOV, but that seems counterintuitive and it seems more likely
that they would just go permanently open by out gassing.
What's your opinion on this?

My DX-Ultra has a proprietary gas discharge arc-plug in its core.
Alpha Delta says that after several years of significant static, it
can get weak and the antenna won't function as well. Just to be anal,
I put in a new one about 6 years ago, and it's worked about the same
before and after and ever since.

On Feb 15, 1:10*pm, wrote:
On Feb 15, 11:48*am, dave wrote:





If you're talking about a receiving antenna, there's really little loss
in using a piece of line tied directly to the antenna wire to maintain
tension.

But consider, that the line will be in contact with other
infrastructure. A tree, a pole. The house, or garage.....whatever you
use to support the block. And while dry, that may be no issue, when wet,
there's enough conductivity to take a nearby static strike up directly
into your front end. May not be the best result.

Using an egg insulator between the line and the wire of your antenna
allows that extra bit of isolation that may save your input. It also
allows a more secure mounting of the antenna, and attachment to your
tensioning line because the mechanical strain is almost entirely borne
by the insulator. Further, if correctly installed, the egg is, itself,
in compression, not tension, so even if damaged, there isn't an
immediate danger of release.

For a receiving antenna, there are few differences in performance. But
there are a few benefits to using an insulator mechanically. And there
may be benefits if there are static issues at your listening post.

A good quality ceramic egg is the better option. Both mechanically and
electrically, and will deteriorate less over time, when exposed to the
elements.

I have a skirt tuned multiband HF vertical, made entirely of aluminum
and plastic. It requires no guys, but I use them anyway due to hurricane
force winds some times. I have 4 [ea] Dacron antenna ropes, tied
directly to the radiating metal of the upper half of the vertical dipole
at about 22 feet AGL. The ropes are at a 45 degree angle and tied to
stakes in the ground.

Wet ropes, as described above, make no difference. Inductively coupled
energy from nearby lightning strikes will get directly into your
transmission line, regardless of your clean eggs. That's why you use Arc
Plugs or something similar.

http://www.mfjenterprises.com/pictures/MFJ-270.jpg-Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

From what I saw--- there is NO protection against a Direct Lightning
strike . Just ask any utility/cable guy !- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I think the only way to *possibly* prevent a lightning jump to your
equipment and house is to provide a total disconnect and shunt to
exterior ground. Otherwise, a lightning stroke can leap a mighty
distance.

On Feb 15, 1:03*pm, wrote:
On Feb 15, 8:40*am, dave wrote:





On 02/14/2011 07:43 PM, RHF wrote:

Then Again Dave : You would recommend using
'Nylon' Thimbles instead . . .

Basically the same item from a different 'source'
http://www.packetradio.com/catalog/i...popup_image&pI...

"C-150" Economy Wire Insulator @ ~50 Cents each
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/antsup/4818.html

I learned to make insulators out of Plexiglass in the early 1960s. Ever
since then I have used scrap plastic when the need arises. And I
transmit. To watch an SWL ****** get all anal about insulators is funny..

Not really. Some of us,over here, are hardcore--diehard--SWL--nuts .
And Perfectionists on top of that ... Just some of us, not all .- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It's a sickness ;-)

On Feb 15, 12:43*pm, bpnjensen wrote:
On Feb 15, 9:08*am, Bob Dobbs wrote:

dave wrote:

http://www.mfjenterprises.com/pictures/MFJ-270.jpg

Looks like the gas discharge type I have.
Somewhere I heard someone say that they go shorted when hit,
like a MOV, but that seems counterintuitive and it seems more likely
that they would just go permanently open by out gassing.
What's your opinion on this?

My DX-Ultra has a proprietary gas discharge arc-plug in its core.
Alpha Delta says that after several years of significant static, it
can get weak and the antenna won't function as well. *Just to be anal,
I put in a new one about 6 years ago, and it's worked about the same
before and after and ever since.

On the subject of front end protection. Some very good (old-time)
designs contained a simple neon light (120vac) across the antenna
terminals . Such modestly priced extra protection never hurts . Gas
discharge tube type is much better,though .

On 02/15/2011 09:08 AM, Bob Dobbs wrote:
dave wrote:

http://www.mfjenterprises.com/pictures/MFJ-270.jpg

Looks like the gas discharge type I have.
Somewhere I heard someone say that they go shorted when hit,
like a MOV, but that seems counterintuitive and it seems more likely
that they would just go permanently open by out gassing.
What's your opinion on this?

The instructions point out that this happens and that you can get back
on the air by removing the replaceable arc pill thingy. I suspect a
charge big enough to fuse the gap would have been a front-end killer. I
was a firm believer in Power MOVs when I was a station engineer in South
Texas.

On 02/15/2011 01:25 PM, bpnjensen wrote:
On Feb 15, 1:10 pm, wrote:
On Feb 15, 11:48 am, wrote:


Wet ropes, as described above, make no difference. Inductively coupled
energy from nearby lightning strikes will get directly into your
transmission line, regardless of your clean eggs. That's why you use Arc
Plugs or something similar.

http://www.mfjenterprises.com/pictures/MFJ-270.jpg-Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

From what I saw--- there is NO protection against a Direct Lightning
strike . Just ask any utility/cable guy !- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I think the only way to *possibly* prevent a lightning jump to your
equipment and house is to provide a total disconnect and shunt to
exterior ground. Otherwise, a lightning stroke can leap a mighty
distance.

I said "inductively coupled energy"; not direct strikes. The egg won't
stop those either.

http://www.hubersuhner.com.au/co-au/...b-princ-gs.htm

On 02/15/2011 01:26 PM, bpnjensen wrote:
On Feb 15, 1:03 pm, wrote:
On Feb 15, 8:40 am, wrote:





On 02/14/2011 07:43 PM, RHF wrote:

Then Again Dave : You would recommend using
'Nylon' Thimbles instead . . .

Basically the same item from a different 'source'
http://www.packetradio.com/catalog/i...popup_image&pI...

"C-150" Economy Wire Insulator @ ~50 Cents each
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/antsup/4818.html

I learned to make insulators out of Plexiglass in the early 1960s. Ever
since then I have used scrap plastic when the need arises. And I
transmit. To watch an SWL ****** get all anal about insulators is funny.

Not really. Some of us,over here, are hardcore--diehard--SWL--nuts .
And Perfectionists on top of that ... Just some of us, not all .- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It's a sickness ;-)

I'd probably get some metal ones from the rigging department.

On Feb 15, 1:25*pm, bpnjensen wrote:
On Feb 15, 1:10*pm, wrote:



On Feb 15, 11:48*am, dave wrote:

If you're talking about a receiving antenna, there's really little loss
in using a piece of line tied directly to the antenna wire to maintain
tension.

But consider, that the line will be in contact with other
infrastructure. A tree, a pole. The house, or garage.....whatever you
use to support the block. And while dry, that may be no issue, when wet,
there's enough conductivity to take a nearby static strike up directly
into your front end. May not be the best result.

Using an egg insulator between the line and the wire of your antenna
allows that extra bit of isolation that may save your input. It also
allows a more secure mounting of the antenna, and attachment to your
tensioning line because the mechanical strain is almost entirely borne
by the insulator. Further, if correctly installed, the egg is, itself,
in compression, not tension, so even if damaged, there isn't an
immediate danger of release.

For a receiving antenna, there are few differences in performance. But
there are a few benefits to using an insulator mechanically. And there
may be benefits if there are static issues at your listening post.

A good quality ceramic egg is the better option. Both mechanically and
electrically, and will deteriorate less over time, when exposed to the
elements.

I have a skirt tuned multiband HF vertical, made entirely of aluminum
and plastic. It requires no guys, but I use them anyway due to hurricane
force winds some times. I have 4 [ea] Dacron antenna ropes, tied
directly to the radiating metal of the upper half of the vertical dipole
at about 22 feet AGL. The ropes are at a 45 degree angle and tied to
stakes in the ground.

Wet ropes, as described above, make no difference. Inductively coupled
energy from nearby lightning strikes will get directly into your
transmission line, regardless of your clean eggs. That's why you use Arc
Plugs or something similar.

http://www.mfjenterprises.com/pictur...jpg-Hidequoted text -

- Show quoted text -

From what I saw--- there is NO protection against a Direct Lightning
strike . Just ask any utility/cable guy !- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

- I think the only way to *possibly* prevent a lightning
- jump to your equipment and house is to provide a
- total disconnect and shunt to exterior ground.
-*Otherwise, a lightning stroke can leap a mighty distance.

ZAP ! - Lightning Has Many Paths To Follow To
Create Radio Equipment Disaster For You - ZAP !

Here is the Almost Sure Proof Way To Stop It !
You walk outside to where you have your Antenna
Feed-in-Line Coax Cable coming to the House :
Where you have located your 1:1 Line Isolator and
un-screw the House-Side PL-259 Plug on the end
of the Coax Cable going into the House from the
Isolator. Have a SO-239 Jack* mounted where
you could easily hang up the Coax and Screw the
PL-259 Plug into it.

* The SO-239 Jack should be Shorted from Center
to the Threaded Outer-Ring.

Now You Do This Each and Every Time You Use
{come home} and Don't Use {leave home} Your
Radio Equipment and can reasonably be sure that
the Radio Equipment is Safe from your Antenna
System being a Lightning Path to it.

....but... oops,,, Oops... OOPS ! ! !
Your House's Electrical System still could be an
'alternative' Path for Lightning to Travel and Get to
your Radio Equipment.

=OK=NOW=
Think of all the Electrical Service 'Grid' Wires that
are with-in a 1/10th of a Mile [528 Feet] from your
House all with the 'potential' To-Channel the Energy
from a Nearby Lightning Strike into your House
{Neighbor's Houses too} and Do Real Damage to
Everything in-side of it; that is "Plugged-In".
-oh-the-horror-

So -rotfl- Un-Plug Everything Before You Leave ;;-}} ~ RHF