and made the biggest loop I could build. It goes from the far corners of
the back yard to the left front corner of the house to a support on the
right side of the house, a kind of truncated rectangle I guess, 15 feet
or so above my desert oasis. I terminated it with an MFJ-913 4:1 BalUn.

The antenna works great for SWL (can't steer it unfortunately for ham
radio) and MWDX. It is very quiet noise from the neighbors. It also
fades less. I can get every powerhouse in the West (except POS KFI) at
night, perfectly. No dimmers buzzing. No plasma TVs. No RV Battery chargers.

I don't know how long it is, but I really lucked out. It resonates at
3599 KHz, and is below 4:1 everywhere. There is another resonance at
around 15 MHz.

So it appears to be an 80 meter full wave horizontal loop. It involved
the roof, so I had to go slow. It took about 2 hours to erect.

On 02/26/2011 05:59 AM, dave wrote:
and made the biggest loop I could build. It goes from the far corners of
the back yard to the left front corner of the house to a support on the
right side of the house, a kind of truncated rectangle I guess, 15 feet
or so above my desert oasis. I terminated it with an MFJ-913 4:1 BalUn.

The antenna works great for SWL (can't steer it unfortunately for ham
radio) and MWDX. It is very quiet noise from the neighbors. It also
fades less. I can get every powerhouse in the West (except POS KFI) at
night, perfectly. No dimmers buzzing. No plasma TVs. No RV Battery
chargers.

I don't know how long it is, but I really lucked out. It resonates at
3599 KHz, and is below 4:1 everywhere. There is another resonance at
around 15 MHz.

So it appears to be an 80 meter full wave horizontal loop. It involved
the roof, so I had to go slow. It took about 2 hours to erect.


http://www.avantiradio.pl/photo/prod...343ed0e616.jpg

http://www.alliedelec.com/Images/Pro...l/876-1553.jpg

On 2/26/2011 8:59 AM, dave wrote:
and made the biggest loop I could build. It goes from the far corners of
the back yard to the left front corner of the house to a support on the
right side of the house, a kind of truncated rectangle I guess, 15 feet
or so above my desert oasis. I terminated it with an MFJ-913 4:1 BalUn.

The antenna works great for SWL (can't steer it unfortunately for ham
radio) and MWDX. It is very quiet noise from the neighbors. It also
fades less. I can get every powerhouse in the West (except POS KFI) at
night, perfectly. No dimmers buzzing. No plasma TVs. No RV Battery
chargers.

Thanks for the description of your new antenna...but you have piqued my
curiosity.

I'm glad it works for you, but pardon me, I'm always suspicious of
antenna claims that say it is great for radio signals but does not pick
up noise.

Hey, we are talking about a piece of #14 wire. RF is RF, noise or the
wanted station. I would be curious to see how that plain piece of wire
is smart enough to differentiate between wanted RF (stations) and
unwanted RF (noise).

My theory is as follows...

You said "I can get every *powerhouse* in the West..."

Is it possible that the antenna is not so great? The noise is weaker
than the wanted (strong) signal. In other words, because the antenna is
only fair to poor, the weaker noise is not heard, but your "powerhouse"
stations are strong enough to be heard.

To give an extreme example, a ham friend less than a mile away and I had
a QSO using dummy loads! Needless to say, there was NO noise, but the
signal was enough of a "powerhouse" that we could carry on communications.

Any thoughts????

P.S. Not starting a flame war against your antenna. I'm just curious.

On 02/26/2011 07:11 AM, Joe from Kokomo wrote:
On 2/26/2011 8:59 AM, dave wrote:
and made the biggest loop I could build. It goes from the far corners of
the back yard to the left front corner of the house to a support on the
right side of the house, a kind of truncated rectangle I guess, 15 feet
or so above my desert oasis. I terminated it with an MFJ-913 4:1 BalUn.

The antenna works great for SWL (can't steer it unfortunately for ham
radio) and MWDX. It is very quiet noise from the neighbors. It also
fades less. I can get every powerhouse in the West (except POS KFI) at
night, perfectly. No dimmers buzzing. No plasma TVs. No RV Battery
chargers.

Thanks for the description of your new antenna...but you have piqued my
curiosity.

I'm glad it works for you, but pardon me, I'm always suspicious of
antenna claims that say it is great for radio signals but does not pick
up noise.

Hey, we are talking about a piece of #14 wire. RF is RF, noise or the
wanted station. I would be curious to see how that plain piece of wire
is smart enough to differentiate between wanted RF (stations) and
unwanted RF (noise).

My theory is as follows...

You said "I can get every *powerhouse* in the West..."

Is it possible that the antenna is not so great? The noise is weaker
than the wanted (strong) signal. In other words, because the antenna is
only fair to poor, the weaker noise is not heard, but your "powerhouse"
stations are strong enough to be heard.

To give an extreme example, a ham friend less than a mile away and I had
a QSO using dummy loads! Needless to say, there was NO noise, but the
signal was enough of a "powerhouse" that we could carry on communications.

Any thoughts????

P.S. Not starting a flame war against your antenna. I'm just curious.




I imagine common mode rejection works in the near field (within 50 or 60
feet or so). This would mean all of my house, and most of my either side
neighbors' houses.

I'm listening to XX 1090 Sports, from Rosarito Beach, BC, 100 miles
away, and they are the loudest cleanest signal on the AM band.

http://www.xxsportsradio.com/pages/main

http://fccinfo.com/CMDProEngine.php?...09324&sHours=N

Dave, glad you had a grat project and that you are happy with it.

Glad you are DXing and enjoying your time.

Keep posting Pal.
--
Burr
Adventure before Dementia

I'm a member of The Tea Party, I VOTE

"dave" wrote in message
. ..
and made the biggest loop I could build. It goes from the far corners of
the back yard to the left front corner of the house to a support on the
right side of the house, a kind of truncated rectangle I guess, 15 feet or
so above my desert oasis. I terminated it with an MFJ-913 4:1 BalUn.

The antenna works great for SWL (can't steer it unfortunately for ham
radio) and MWDX. It is very quiet noise from the neighbors. It also
fades less. I can get every powerhouse in the West (except POS KFI) at
night, perfectly. No dimmers buzzing. No plasma TVs. No RV Battery
chargers.

I don't know how long it is, but I really lucked out. It resonates at 3599
KHz, and is below 4:1 everywhere. There is another resonance at around 15
MHz.

So it appears to be an 80 meter full wave horizontal loop. It involved the
roof, so I had to go slow. It took about 2 hours to erect.

Damn Roy, Don't pick him a part. Let him enjoy his antenna! He built it and
he's proud of it
--
Burr
Big, Lean, Mean and Clean.
I Push Iron and Turn Cranks
I'll be lifting until they pry the
bar from my cold dead hands
Adventure before Dementia

I'm a member of The Tea Party, I VOTE

"RHF" wrote in message
...
On Feb 26, 7:11 am, Joe from Kokomo wrote:
On 2/26/2011 8:59 AM, dave wrote:

and made the biggest loop I could build. It goes from the far corners of
the back yard to the left front corner of the house to a support on the
right side of the house, a kind of truncated rectangle I guess, 15 feet
or so above my desert oasis. I terminated it with an MFJ-913 4:1 BalUn.

The antenna works great for SWL (can't steer it unfortunately for ham
radio) and MWDX. It is very quiet noise from the neighbors. It also
fades less. I can get every powerhouse in the West (except POS KFI) at
night, perfectly. No dimmers buzzing. No plasma TVs. No RV Battery
chargers.

Thanks for the description of your new antenna...but you have piqued my
curiosity.

I'm glad it works for you, but pardon me, I'm always suspicious of
antenna claims that say it is great for radio signals but does not pick
up noise.

Hey, we are talking about a piece of #14 wire. RF is RF, noise or the
wanted station. I would be curious to see how that plain piece of wire
is smart enough to differentiate between wanted RF (stations) and
unwanted RF (noise).

My theory is as follows...

You said "I can get every *powerhouse* in the West..."

Is it possible that the antenna is not so great? The noise is weaker
than the wanted (strong) signal. In other words, because the antenna is
only fair to poor, the weaker noise is not heard, but your "powerhouse"
stations are strong enough to be heard.

To give an extreme example, a ham friend less than a mile away and I had
a QSO using dummy loads! Needless to say, there was NO noise, but the
signal was enough of a "powerhouse" that we could carry on communications.

Any thoughts????

- P.S. Not starting a flame war against your antenna. I'm just
curious.

{{-;; Let The Antenna Flame War Begin ! ::-}}
-just-kidding-

Joe from Kokomo,

First it's a Horizontal [Flat] Loop Antenna and is
considered to be a 'Balanced' Antenna.

The each of local nearby RF/EMF Noise Sources
are Single Points of Noise to the Loop from within
and without.

* A Single Point of Noise that is within the Circle/Area
of the Loop is received {pick-up} on all points of the Loop;
and so is usually reduced/canceled-out.

* A Single Point of Noise that is near the outside** the
Circle/Area of the Loop is received {pick-up} on all points
of the Loop; and so is usually reduced/canceled-out.
** Near the Outside within a Distance of one Radius to
one Diameter of the Circumference of the Loop.

Distant RF Signals that are much more Farther Away
from the Loop Antenna {1000 Diameters} are received
as a Single Uniform {In-Phase} Signal; and therefore
NOT usually reduced/canceled-out.

NOTE : Some claim that Local RF/EMF Noise is more
Vertical Polarized than Horizontal -and- Therefore a
Horizontal Loop picks-up less of the Local RF/EMF
Noise as a result of simply being Horizontal - nitt?

PLUS : Most Distance Sky-Wave Signals especially
after a few RF Signal Bounces Off the Atmosphere
are More Horizontal Polarized than they are Vertical
-and- Therefore a Horizontal Loop picks-up More of
these Distance Far-A-Way RF Signals as a result of
simply being Horizontal - nitt?

The Second Thing that a Loop Antenna does for the
Shortwave Radio Listener [SWL] is Maximizes the
Utilization of the Available Space they are Using to
Put More Wire In-the-Air over a Long/Random {Single}
Wire Antenna or even a Dipole {Two Wire} Antenna.
~Translation~ MORE WIRE IN-THE-AIR
-example- For a 50 Foot by 50 Foot Square with a
70 Foot Long Random Wire Antenna across it's
Diagonal -or- a 70 Foot Long Dipole Antenna across
it's Diagonal : A Square Loop Antenna at the Corners
would be 200 Foot around with 3-Times the Wire
In-the-Air to Receive RF Signals.
{~3X High Signal Levels}

The Third Thing that a Loop Antenna does for the
Shortwave Radio Listener [SWL] is Maximizes the
Utilization of the Available Space they are Using to
Expand the Signal-Capture-Area over a Long/Random
{Single} Wire Antenna or even a Dipole {Two Wire}
Antenna.
~Translation~ MORE SIGNAL CAPTURE AREA
-example- For a 50 Foot by 50 Foot Square with
All Antennas at 25 Feet : A 70 Foot Long Random
Wire Antenna across it's Diagonal -or- a 70 Foot
Long Dipole Antenna across it's Diagonal with :
A Square Loop Antenna at the Corners would be
2500 Foot around with 7~9 Times the Signal Capture
Area to Receive More RF Signals.

Conclusion :
* The Horizontal Loop Antenna is a 'relatively' Lower {Local}
Noise Antenna than the Random/Long Wire Antenna
-it's-a-balance-antenna-versus-unbalanced-
* The Horizontal Loop Antenna is a 'relatively' Higher {Distant}
Signal Antenna that the Random/Long Wire Antenna
-it's-got-more-wire-in-the-air-
* The Horizontal Loop Antenna is a 'relatively' More {Distant}
Signal Antenna that the Random/Long Wire Antenna
-it's-got-more-signal-capture-area-
* The Horizontal Loop Antenna is a 'relatively' Designed
for Sky-Wave RF Signals and does a better job that the
Random/Long Wire Antenna
-it's-does-what-it-is-designed-to-do-

The Two Things That The Random/Long Wire Antenna
Has Over The Horizontal Loop Antenna :
1 - Half the Materials {Fewer Things}
2 - Half the Work {Less To Do}
3 - Easier to Locate/Site and Erect {Easy to Do}
=Conclusion= Easier/Simpler To Build

that's my 'relative' opinion - iane ~ RHF

On Feb 28, 12:17*am, "Burr" wrote:
Damn Roy, Don't pick him a part. Let him enjoy his antenna! He built it and
he's proud of it
--
Burr
Big, Lean, Mean and Clean.
I Push Iron and Turn Cranks
* I'll be lifting until they pry the
bar from my cold dead hands
* Adventure before Dementia

I'm a member of The Tea Party, I VOTE

"RHF" wrote in message

...
On Feb 26, 7:11 am, Joe from Kokomo wrote:





On 2/26/2011 8:59 AM, dave wrote:

and made the biggest loop I could build. It goes from the far corners of
the back yard to the left front corner of the house to a support on the
right side of the house, a kind of truncated rectangle I guess, 15 feet
or so above my desert oasis. I terminated it with an MFJ-913 4:1 BalUn.

On Feb 27, 9:30*pm, wrote:
On Feb 28, 12:17*am, "Burr" wrote:



Damn Roy, Don't pick him a part. Let him enjoy his antenna! He built it and
he's proud of it
--
Burr
Big, Lean, Mean and Clean.
I Push Iron and Turn Cranks
* I'll be lifting until they pry the
bar from my cold dead hands
* Adventure before Dementia

I'm a member of The Tea Party, I VOTE

"RHF" wrote in message

....
On Feb 26, 7:11 am, Joe from Kokomo wrote:

On 2/26/2011 8:59 AM, dave wrote:

and made the biggest loop I could build. It goes from the far corners of
the back yard to the left front corner of the house to a support on the
right side of the house, a kind of truncated rectangle I guess, 15 feet
or so above my desert oasis. I terminated it with an MFJ-913 4:1 BalUn.

The antenna works great for SWL (can't steer it unfortunately for ham
radio) and MWDX. It is very quiet noise from the neighbors. It also
fades less. I can get every powerhouse in the West (except POS KFI) at
night, perfectly. No dimmers buzzing. No plasma TVs. No RV Battery
chargers.

Thanks for the description of your new antenna...but you have piqued my
curiosity.

I'm glad it works for you, but pardon me, I'm always suspicious of
antenna claims that say it is great for radio signals but does not pick
up noise.

Hey, we are talking about a piece of #14 wire. RF is RF, noise or the
wanted station. I would be curious to see how that plain piece of wire
is smart enough to differentiate between wanted RF (stations) and
unwanted RF (noise).

My theory is as follows...

You said "I can get every *powerhouse* in the West..."

Is it possible that the antenna is not so great? The noise is weaker
than the wanted (strong) signal. In other words, because the antenna is
only fair to poor, the weaker noise is not heard, but your "powerhouse"
stations are strong enough to be heard.

To give an extreme example, a ham friend less than a mile away and I had
a QSO using dummy loads! Needless to say, there was NO noise, but the
signal was enough of a "powerhouse" that we could carry on communications.

Any thoughts????

- P.S. Not starting a flame war against your antenna. I'm just
curious.

{{-;; Let The Antenna Flame War Begin ! ::-}}
-just-kidding-

Joe from Kokomo,

First it's a Horizontal [Flat] Loop Antenna and is
considered to be a 'Balanced' Antenna.

The each of local nearby RF/EMF Noise Sources
are Single Points of Noise to the Loop from within
and without.

* A Single Point of Noise that is within the Circle/Area
of the Loop is received {pick-up} on all points of the Loop;
and so is usually reduced/canceled-out.

* A Single Point of Noise that is near the outside** the
Circle/Area of the Loop is received {pick-up} on all points
of the Loop; and so is usually reduced/canceled-out.
** Near the Outside within a Distance of one Radius to
one Diameter of the Circumference of the Loop.

Distant RF Signals that are much more Farther Away
from the Loop Antenna {1000 Diameters} are received
as a Single Uniform {In-Phase} Signal; and therefore
NOT usually reduced/canceled-out.

NOTE : Some claim that Local RF/EMF Noise is more
Vertical Polarized than Horizontal -and- Therefore a
Horizontal Loop picks-up less of the Local RF/EMF
Noise as a result of simply being Horizontal - nitt?

PLUS : Most Distance Sky-Wave Signals especially
after a few RF Signal Bounces Off the Atmosphere
are More Horizontal Polarized than they are Vertical
-and- Therefore a Horizontal Loop picks-up More of
these Distance Far-A-Way RF Signals as a result of
simply being Horizontal - nitt?

The Second Thing that a Loop Antenna does for the
Shortwave Radio Listener [SWL] is Maximizes the
Utilization of the Available Space they are Using to
Put More Wire In-the-Air over a Long/Random {Single}
Wire Antenna or even a Dipole {Two Wire} Antenna.
~Translation~ MORE WIRE IN-THE-AIR
-example- For a 50 Foot by 50 Foot Square with a
70 Foot Long Random Wire Antenna across it's
Diagonal -or- a 70 Foot Long Dipole Antenna across
it's Diagonal : A Square Loop Antenna at the Corners
would be 200 Foot around with 3-Times the Wire
In-the-Air to Receive RF Signals.
{~3X High Signal Levels}

The Third Thing that a Loop Antenna does for the
Shortwave Radio Listener [SWL] is Maximizes the
Utilization of the Available Space they are Using to
Expand the Signal-Capture-Area over a Long/Random
{Single} Wire Antenna or even a Dipole {Two Wire}
Antenna.
~Translation~ MORE SIGNAL CAPTURE AREA
-example- For a 50 Foot by 50 Foot Square with
All Antennas at 25 Feet : A 70 Foot Long Random
Wire Antenna across it's Diagonal -or- a 70 Foot
Long Dipole Antenna across it's Diagonal with :
A Square Loop Antenna at the Corners would be
2500 Foot around with 7~9 Times the Signal Capture
Area to Receive More RF Signals.

Conclusion :
* The Horizontal Loop Antenna is a 'relatively' Lower {Local}
Noise Antenna than the Random/Long Wire Antenna
-it's-a-balance-antenna-versus-unbalanced-
* The Horizontal Loop Antenna is a 'relatively' Higher {Distant}
Signal Antenna that the Random/Long Wire Antenna
-it's-got-more-wire-in-the-air-
* The Horizontal Loop Antenna is a 'relatively' More {Distant}
Signal Antenna that the Random/Long Wire Antenna
-it's-got-more-signal-capture-area-
* The Horizontal Loop Antenna is a 'relatively' Designed
for Sky-Wave RF Signals and does a better job that the
Random/Long Wire Antenna
-it's-does-what-it-is-designed-to-do-

The Two Things That The Random/Long Wire Antenna
Has Over The Horizontal Loop Antenna :
1 - Half the Materials {Fewer Things}
2 - Half the Work {Less To Do}
3 - Easier to Locate/Site and Erect {Easy to Do}
=Conclusion= Easier/Simpler To Build

that's my 'relative' opinion - iane ~ RHF
*.
*.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

- A loop antenna is more directional (in general) than a longwire .
- That's a very big asset in DF applications .

Arthrny,

Yes : Vertical Loop Antennas can be very Directional
-but- Usually they are less than a 1/10th of a Wave
Length long and often make with Multi-Turns.

What we are talking about here is a Large One Wave
Length {or 1/2 WL} Horizontal [Flat] Loop Antenna
{One 'Single' Turn} that is 'relatively' close to the ground
{Less than a 1/4WL} and uses a Balanced Feed-in-Line.
Generally the more uniform and symmetrical {circular}
the Loop is the more Omni-Directional the Loop Antenna
becomes.

~ RHF

On Feb 27, 4:14*pm, dave wrote:

- - On 02/27/2011 03:28 PM, RHF wrote:
WHY ? The Horizontal Loop Antenna
-may-be- The Better Over-All SWL Antenna !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...84c0a9c8d6a76b

On 02/27/2011 09:30 PM, wrote:

The Two Things That The Random/Long Wire Antenna
Has Over The Horizontal Loop Antenna :
1 - Half the Materials {Fewer Things}
2 - Half the Work {Less To Do}
3 - Easier to Locate/Site and Erect {Easy to Do}
=Conclusion= Easier/Simpler To Build

that's my 'relative' opinion - iane ~ RHF
.
.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

A loop antenna is more directional (in general) than a longwire .
That's a very big asset in DF applications .

A small loop has less than 10% of the wavelength.

A large loop has at least 50% of the wavelength.

Small loops are easily built and when vertically oriented exhibit a very
useful figure 8 pattern. Downside, they need to be turned (and tuned). I
can't put one inside my lath and plaster house. I don't have an antenna
rotator.

My large horizontal loop requires no aiming nor tuning. It is for SWL
and amateur receiving only. Set it and forget it. QRM was the main
problem. It is 95% solved. I never (never) hear light switches (which
cause huge explosions on my ham radio) or the oscillators in my analog
TV; and like that there.