On May 23, 11:27*pm, John Smith wrote:
On 5/23/2011 12:49 PM, gfn wrote:









On May 21, 7:30 pm, John *wrote:
On 5/21/2011 4:29 PM, John Smith wrote:

If you look at the figures on this page, you will find, in 2007, in
America:
1) The top 1% have 42.7 of the financial wealth.
2) The next 19% have 50.3% of the wealth.
3) The bottom 80% have 7.0% of the wealth.
So, according to those figures, the top 20% of the population have
42.7 + 50.3 = 93% of the financial wealth.
This situation has worsened since 2007 ...
I'd say we tax those top 20% of the population, what say all of you?
Regards,
JS
Of course, I forgot the link in the above:

http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesam...er/wealth.html

Regards,
JS
What I say is interesting, and very slanted, one sided article. *I
particularly like how they avoid who is actually footing the federal
income tax bill in this country and focus primarily on the percentage
of ones income that they pay in taxes. *They also avoid who primarily
benefits from all this income that is coming in. *Paints two different
pictures. *But, fear not, I'm here to help.

Top 1% paid 38.02% of the bill
Top 5% paid 58.72% of the bill
Top 10% paid 69.94% of the bill
Top 25% paid 86.34% of the bill
Top 50% paid 97.30% of the bill
Bottom 50% paid 2.7% of the bill
http://ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

Now, before you complain about who has the wealth consider that the US
does not, but for limited circumstances, derive their revenue based on
wealth. *It's based on income. *So, let's compare apples to apples
until the law changes to tax based on wealth.

Is there a summary of the taxes which they are using in that figure,
somewhere?


Yeah. It's called the IRS. IRS.gov to be specific.

For example, are these figures only dealing with income tax?

Yes. That's how the government is primarily funded.


Do they take into consideration fees, licenses, fines, federal excise
taxes, state sales taxes, fuel taxes, property taxes, etc., etc.


No. But, do you think the wealthy don't pay fees, licenses, fines,
excise taxes, state sales taxes, fuel taxes, property taxes, etc.?

No, 1% of the people in the highest income taxes are NOT paying their
fair share ... and, all those other figures are just as skewed ...


Sure they are. The numbers don't lie. You can not deny that the top
1% pay over 38% of all federal income taxes. That is not disputable.
It is a fact. What I see your side doing is avoiding the question of
who is footing the bill and prefer to frame the question as how much
of one's income is someone paying in taxes. Two different questions
with two very different results. My point is when it comes to funding
government it is indisputable who is doing just that. Nothing you say
can change that.

Regards,
JS

On 5/24/2011 7:47 AM, gfn wrote:

...

I am saying the obvious, 1% of the people making a huge percentage of
all the financial wealth and frequently pay no or low taxes contribute
little ...

We do not need innuendo, opinions or BS. We need exact figures on their
contributions to the whole of all taxes paid. I think that 1% is not
paying their fair share as determined by the amount of money they make.
I think the reason that the figure are so hidden on all this data is
obvious -- they know they are not paying their fair share, and that is
reasons for websites such as this one:

http://ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

These are the rich crooks attempting to manipulate public opinion ...
and yes, the financial wealth needs spread out better than the 20/80
percent cut which is happening!

Regards,
JS

On May 24, 11:11*am, John Smith wrote:
On 5/24/2011 7:47 AM, gfn wrote:

* ...

I am saying the obvious, 1% of the people making a huge percentage of
all the financial wealth and frequently pay no or low taxes contribute
little ...


What part of the top 1% pay 38% of the federal income tax bill isn't
registering with you? Your statement that they pay little or
contribute little is simply not true. The IRS numbers bear that out.
Put your wealth envy aside and try to be just a little objective about
this.

We do not need innuendo, opinions or BS. *We need exact figures on their
contributions to the whole of all taxes paid. *I think that 1% is not
paying their fair share as determined by the amount of money they make. *

Fine, you just backed up my claim in my last post on re-framing the
question as to who pays the bill as opposed to who pays what of their
income.

I think the reason that the figure are so hidden on all this data is
obvious -- they know they are not paying their fair share, and that is
reasons for websites such as this one:


Again, the numbers don't lie. I can't fathom how someone can say that
where 1% foots 38% of the bill that they aren't paying their fair
share. I'm not going to change your mind on that point so there
really is no use in trying to convince you otherwise other than to say
you're just flat out wrong.

http://ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

These are the rich crooks attempting to manipulate public opinion ...
and yes, the financial wealth needs spread out better than the 20/80
percent cut which is happening!


Crooks? Your wealth envy has clouded your judgment and objectivity.

Regards,
JS

On 5/24/2011 7:47 AM, gfn wrote:

So, let me cut to the chase here, since 1% of the people make 42.7
percent of the financial wealth, they should pay for 42.7 percent of the
cost of the roads, the public utilities, the parks, the state budget,
the federal budget, etc.

And, since 50.3 percent of the people get half of the financial wealth,
they should be paying over half the costs of all these government
costs. And, they should be damn anxious to pay them, after all, that is
the system which is allowing their financial wealth.

Regards,
JS

On 5/24/2011 8:20 AM, gfn wrote:

...

Where are some credible souces to back up any of that innuendo you keep
attempting to push?

Truth is, sure looks like the wealthiest 1% are not paying 42% of all of
governments costs, and sure looks like the top 19% are not paying half
of governments costs, until that happens they are NOT paying their fair
share ... a flat tax can fix that ...


Regards,
JS

On May 24, 11:24*am, John Smith wrote:
On 5/24/2011 8:20 AM, gfn wrote:

* ...

Where are some credible souces to back up any of that innuendo you keep
attempting to push?

Truth is, sure looks like the wealthiest 1% are not paying 42% of all of
governments costs, and sure looks like the top 19% are not paying half
of governments costs, until that happens they are NOT paying their fair
share ... a flat tax can fix that ...

Regards,
JS

I already said the tax data is at irs.gov

Now, as for a flat tax I agree with you 100%. The one I advocate is
the FairTax.

On 5/24/2011 9:02 AM, gfn wrote:
On May 24, 11:24 am, John wrote:
On 5/24/2011 8:20 AM, gfn wrote:

...

Where are some credible souces to back up any of that innuendo you keep
attempting to push?

Truth is, sure looks like the wealthiest 1% are not paying 42% of all of
governments costs, and sure looks like the top 19% are not paying half
of governments costs, until that happens they are NOT paying their fair
share ... a flat tax can fix that ...

Regards,
JS
I already said the tax data is at irs.gov

Now, as for a flat tax I agree with you 100%. The one I advocate is
the FairTax.

Let me put this more bluntly. If I buy and item and pay 7% sales tax,
the top one percent should buy an item and pay a 42.7% sales tax, that
way they will be contributing their fair share to run government ...

http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesam...er/wealth.html

Regards,
JS

On 5/24/2011 9:02 AM, gfn wrote:
On May 24, 11:24 am, John wrote:
On 5/24/2011 8:20 AM, gfn wrote:

...

Where are some credible souces to back up any of that innuendo you keep
attempting to push?

Truth is, sure looks like the wealthiest 1% are not paying 42% of all of
governments costs, and sure looks like the top 19% are not paying half
of governments costs, until that happens they are NOT paying their fair
share ... a flat tax can fix that ...

Regards,
JS
I already said the tax data is at irs.gov

Now, as for a flat tax I agree with you 100%. The one I advocate is
the FairTax.

First of all, the data on that site is not effective in being able to
reach any proper conclusions ... it has been conveniently arranged that way.

Even a professional accountant would need a great amount of time to be
able to apply the data effectively, and then only with the data from
other sources ...

Regards,
JS

John Smith wrote in news:irghrd$f2r$1@dont-
email.me:

On 5/24/2011 7:47 AM, gfn wrote:

...

I am saying the obvious, 1% of the people making a huge percentage of
all the financial wealth and frequently pay no or low taxes contribute
little ...

We do not need innuendo, opinions or BS.

Then why did you just post a comment with no cite?

We need exact figures on their
contributions to the whole of all taxes paid. I think that 1% is not
paying their fair share as determined by the amount of money they make.

Then provide cites to prove it.

I think the reason that the figure are so hidden on all this data is
obvious -- they know they are not paying their fair share, and that is
reasons for websites such as this one:

http://ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

These are the rich crooks attempting to manipulate public opinion ...
and yes, the financial wealth needs spread out better than the 20/80
percent cut which is happening!

Then you should have no problem showing a cite for your claim.
Otherwise, we may have to think you simply pulled it out of your ass.


--
Sleep well tonight....RD (The Sandman)

If you woke up this morning....
Don't complain.

John Smith wrote in news:irgik5$f2r$3@dont-
email.me:

On 5/24/2011 8:20 AM, gfn wrote:

...

Where are some credible souces to back up any of that innuendo you keep
attempting to push?

Truth is, sure looks like the wealthiest 1% are not paying 42% of all
of
governments costs, and sure looks like the top 19% are not paying half
of governments costs, until that happens they are NOT paying their fair
share ... a flat tax can fix that ...

Oh, you mean one like this?

A tax on *ALL* income no matter where derived. One deduction. Federal
poverty level for a family of four and everybody gets that deduction.
Have a tax rate of, say 15% and the current poverty level at $24K and we
get the following:

A person who earns up to $24K, pays nada...
A person who earns $50K, pays $3,900 (50-24x15%)
A person who earns $100K, pays $11,400 (100-24x15%)
A person who earns $500K, pays $71,400 (500-24x15%)
A person who earns a million pays $146,400 (1000-24x15%)

That do it for you?


--
Sleep well tonight....RD (The Sandman)

If you woke up this morning....
Don't complain.