In article ,
says...

In article ,
John Smith wrote:

On 10/9/2011 4:35 PM, William Clark wrote:
In ,
Alan wrote:

In articlejoednXxxSuLvPQzTnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@earthlink .com,
wrote:

On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 11:03:20 +0900, Brenda Ann wrote:



That's not the business Apple is in; they sell a lifestyle of form
[over] substance


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Besides, Apple was extant in the market before PC's (the original Apple
computer was something like $3000, a clone was about $2300, IIRC). Apple
maintained a following and indeed an increasing market base even after
PC's got so cheap that most anyone could afford one.

If someone likes a product enough to pay what seems to be an exhorbitant
price for it, even in the face of a much cheaper alternative, then that
is what they call "market forces" in operation. The consumer, in this
case, has actually set the price by buying the product. If nobody were
buying it, it would either become cheaper or taken off the market.

They subsidised and strongarmed their way into schools; a whole
generation equated Apple with computing. It's definitely a fashion thing.
I was the IT guy at a TV network west coast headquarters. All the
"creative" types insisted on iMacs; they refused to work on windows
machines (this is for typing-not editing). Hollywood creative types are
insufferable boors.

Of course... ...someone insisting on a product must be a "fashion thing".

How exactly did Apple "strongarm" their way into schools.

Perhaps this genius can also explain why more and more college students
in science and engineering are switching to Macs? Of their own free
will, that is. And not to use Windoze on them, either.

What is Apple at now - 11%, third largest, up from less than 5% four
years ago?

Could have some relationship to the accelerated "dumbing down" of
schools and students which has been underway for decades ... no
motivation or interest in building their own computers or maintaining
up-to-date and state-of-the-art equip. for advanced use ... just want
canned hardware ... just sayin' ...

Regards,
JS

Or it could be what I've observed year after year: someone who switches
to the Mac almost never switches back to the PC.

I had to use a Mac as a desktop system for two years when I worked for
Terry Mathews. Worst experience of my life, using a Mac. I had to use
the modified desktop reset device too often to ever want to purchase a
Mac. The modified desktop reset device was a paper clip.

PC's are much better bargain than the Mac.

In article f3ea0f70-8954-46ad-81cf-7fff0630c4d3
@x25g2000prg.googlegroups.com, says...

On Oct 9, 11:19*pm, John Smith wrote:
On 10/9/2011 11:49 AM, Alan Baker wrote:









In articlejoednXxxSuLvPQzTnZ2dnUVZ_sudn...@earthlink .com,
* *wrote:

On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 11:03:20 +0900, Brenda Ann wrote:

That's not the business Apple is in; they sell a lifestyle of form
[over] substance

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--

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--

Besides, Apple was extant in the market before PC's (the original Apple
computer was something like $3000, a clone was about $2300, IIRC). Apple
maintained a following and indeed an increasing market base even after
PC's got so cheap that *most anyone could afford one.

If someone likes a product enough to pay what seems to be an exhorbitant
price for it, even in the face of a much cheaper alternative, then that
is what they call "market forces" in operation. The consumer, in this
case, has actually set the price by buying the product. If nobody were
buying it, it would either become cheaper or taken off the market.

They subsidised and strongarmed their way into schools; a whole
generation equated Apple with computing. It's definitely a fashion thing.
I was the IT guy at a TV network west coast headquarters. All the
"creative" types insisted on iMacs; they refused to work on windows
machines (this is for typing-not editing). Hollywood creative types are
insufferable boors.

Of course... ...someone insisting on a product must be a "fashion thing".

How exactly did Apple "strongarm" their way into schools.

They virtually gave them the hardware, then sold them the software for
exorbitant prices ... signed them into exploitative contracts, etc.
Contracts which stipulated only apple people maintained the college
hardware ... etc., etc. *Games within games, really.

Back in the late 80's and early 90's I taught at a jr. college, I seen
first hand how apples predatory sales techniques worked.

Finally, at the college, a few of us wrote letters of complaint to the
"higher ups" and rectified the problem ... there was also some business
of "incentives" being passed about about by apple to those who
controlled purchasing ... lunches, wining and dining, etc. *However,
digital equipment corporation also participated in such practices ... (DEC)

However, one thing I did notice, the "apple room" was always full of
liberal arts students while the PC sections of the computer labs always
contained the math, physics, science, etc. students ... just as a casual
observation ...

Regards,
JS

Digital Equipment Corporation [DEC] now there is
a name 'i' have not heard in a Decade or more...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital...nt_Corporation

a slave to 'the machine' ~ RHF
.

DEC purchased by Compaq purchased by HP and now HP is out of the PC
business again.

On 10/10/11 6:53 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

In ,
John wrote:

On 10/9/2011 4:35 PM, William Clark wrote:
In ,
Alan wrote:

In articlejoednXxxSuLvPQzTnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@earthlink .com,
wrote:

On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 11:03:20 +0900, Brenda Ann wrote:



That's not the business Apple is in; they sell a lifestyle of form
[over] substance


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
--
--

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
--
--

Besides, Apple was extant in the market before PC's (the original Apple
computer was something like $3000, a clone was about $2300, IIRC). Apple
maintained a following and indeed an increasing market base even after
PC's got so cheap that most anyone could afford one.

If someone likes a product enough to pay what seems to be an exhorbitant
price for it, even in the face of a much cheaper alternative, then that
is what they call "market forces" in operation. The consumer, in this
case, has actually set the price by buying the product. If nobody were
buying it, it would either become cheaper or taken off the market.

They subsidised and strongarmed their way into schools; a whole
generation equated Apple with computing. It's definitely a fashion thing.
I was the IT guy at a TV network west coast headquarters. All the
"creative" types insisted on iMacs; they refused to work on windows
machines (this is for typing-not editing). Hollywood creative types are
insufferable boors.

Of course... ...someone insisting on a product must be a "fashion thing".

How exactly did Apple "strongarm" their way into schools.

Perhaps this genius can also explain why more and more college students
in science and engineering are switching to Macs? Of their own free
will, that is. And not to use Windoze on them, either.

What is Apple at now - 11%, third largest, up from less than 5% four
years ago?

Could have some relationship to the accelerated "dumbing down" of
schools and students which has been underway for decades ... no
motivation or interest in building their own computers or maintaining
up-to-date and state-of-the-art equip. for advanced use ... just want
canned hardware ... just sayin' ...

Regards,
JS

Or it could be what I've observed year after year: someone who switches
to the Mac almost never switches back to the PC.

I had to use a Mac as a desktop system for two years when I worked for
Terry Mathews. Worst experience of my life, using a Mac. I had to use
the modified desktop reset device too often to ever want to purchase a
Mac. The modified desktop reset device was a paper clip.

Yeah, that paper clip was really tough to use. But then you switched to
a device that needed control-alt-delete all too often to bring it back
to life after yet another freeze up.

PC's are much better bargain than the Mac.

That is true. Of course the companies making them are making couch
change producing them.

--
Lloyd

On 10/10/11 6:55 AM, BAR wrote:
In articlef3ea0f70-8954-46ad-81cf-7fff0630c4d3
@x25g2000prg.googlegroups.com, says...

On Oct 9, 11:19 pm, John wrote:
On 10/9/2011 11:49 AM, Alan Baker wrote:









In articlejoednXxxSuLvPQzTnZ2dnUVZ_sudn...@earthlink .com,
wrote:

On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 11:03:20 +0900, Brenda Ann wrote:

That's not the business Apple is in; they sell a lifestyle of form
[over] substance

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--

Besides, Apple was extant in the market before PC's (the original Apple
computer was something like $3000, a clone was about $2300, IIRC). Apple
maintained a following and indeed an increasing market base even after
PC's got so cheap that most anyone could afford one.

If someone likes a product enough to pay what seems to be an exhorbitant
price for it, even in the face of a much cheaper alternative, then that
is what they call "market forces" in operation. The consumer, in this
case, has actually set the price by buying the product. If nobody were
buying it, it would either become cheaper or taken off the market.

They subsidised and strongarmed their way into schools; a whole
generation equated Apple with computing. It's definitely a fashion thing.
I was the IT guy at a TV network west coast headquarters. All the
"creative" types insisted on iMacs; they refused to work on windows
machines (this is for typing-not editing). Hollywood creative types are
insufferable boors.

Of course... ...someone insisting on a product must be a "fashion thing".

How exactly did Apple "strongarm" their way into schools.

They virtually gave them the hardware, then sold them the software for
exorbitant prices ... signed them into exploitative contracts, etc.
Contracts which stipulated only apple people maintained the college
hardware ... etc., etc. Games within games, really.

Back in the late 80's and early 90's I taught at a jr. college, I seen
first hand how apples predatory sales techniques worked.

Finally, at the college, a few of us wrote letters of complaint to the
"higher ups" and rectified the problem ... there was also some business
of "incentives" being passed about about by apple to those who
controlled purchasing ... lunches, wining and dining, etc. However,
digital equipment corporation also participated in such practices ... (DEC)

However, one thing I did notice, the "apple room" was always full of
liberal arts students while the PC sections of the computer labs always
contained the math, physics, science, etc. students ... just as a casual
observation ...

Regards,
JS

Digital Equipment Corporation [DEC] now there is
a name 'i' have not heard in a Decade or more...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital...nt_Corporation

a slave to 'the machine' ~ RHF
.

DEC purchased by Compaq purchased by HP and now HP is out of the PC
business again.


Well not quite out of it yet. But certainly heading in that direction.
That'll leave more couch change for Dell and other wintel mfgs to
split up.



--
Lloyd

"BAR" wrote in message ...
.

DEC purchased by Compaq purchased by HP and now HP is out of the PC
business again.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First I've heard of that. I get email from HP at least twice a month wanting
me to upgrade my laptop. Also, the PX sells almost nothing BUT HP computers.

On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 23:24:08 -0700, John Smith
wrote:

Could have some relationship to the accelerated "dumbing down" of
schools and students which has been underway for decades ...


Not for decades - forever. Each generation is dumber, has poorer
values, and is in every way worse than the previous generation - as
defined by the previous generation. Everything good peaked at the
previous generation after millennia of improvement, but is now going
down hill.

For any value of "now" that you wish to use getting its previous
generation to make the valuation.

--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison

On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 07:49:37 -0400, BAR wrote:

What is Apple at now - 11%, third largest, up from less than 5% four
years ago?

Intel won.

PC won (Pancreatic Cancer).

--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison

Carly Fiorina, (spelling?) former big shot at HP once said Americans do
not deserve to have jobs.
There is NO Way in Hell I ever want a HP anything! U.S.Army PX stores
need to Wise Up and start selling different computers.Anything but HP.
cuhulin

On 10/10/2011 4:21 AM, Joe from Kokomo wrote:
On 10/10/2011 3:13 AM, Alan Baker wrote:

Or it could be what I've observed year after year: someone who switches
to the Mac almost never switches back to the PC.

Have you also considered economics? Macs ain't cheap...and once people
have all that Mac money invested, they might be reluctant to change.

I had my first Apple II back in 1981. Loved it! Then along came the Mac
-- closed architecture, NO expansion slots.

IBM PCs then came on the scene with -- whadda ya know -- open
architecture and expansion slots, an idea that Apple abandoned and IBM
adopted.

To this very day, IBM has TONS more ham radio, astronomy and science
software, expansion cards and applications than the Mac.

If you like a toaster/appliance, the Mac is just fine.

Valid point(s.)

Regards,
JS

On 10/10/2011 7:00 AM, Howard Brazee wrote:
On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 23:24:08 -0700, John
wrote:

Could have some relationship to the accelerated "dumbing down" of
schools and students which has been underway for decades ...


Not for decades - forever. Each generation is dumber, has poorer
values, and is in every way worse than the previous generation - as
defined by the previous generation. Everything good peaked at the
previous generation after millennia of improvement, but is now going
down hill.

For any value of "now" that you wish to use getting its previous
generation to make the valuation.


Well, an example of that might be my own childhood, and that "past
generation."

Eighty-percent of the people owned their own homes, twenty-percent were
buying (mortgages, renting, etc.) -- today that is totally upside down
and an excellent indication of the trouble we are in ...

Regards,
JS