A friend, who is teaching at Kyung Hee University in Seoul, Korea sent me this
letter. Maybe BrenaAnn can confirm whether she finds the same to be true:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------
a view from abroad


Two things are absolutely chilling about this:


1. We have no idea what is going on that hasnt been reported. Clearly
given the extent of the violations that has ALREADY been documented (by the
International Red Cross and the military itself), what kind of horrific ****
is going on that we dont know about? (What have they been doing to people
at Guantanamo, in Afghanistan?)


2. Absent the photos there would not have been international outrage. The
reports by Red Cross were all documents and didnt have the same shock value
as the photos. Domestically, its probably true that this would have never
entered the mainstream of american consciousness. While internationally, it
had already caused damage which most Americans had largely ignored. The
photos actually contextualized this issue and brought it home, PROVING the
allegations of abuse that had already been documented. In this case the
pictures are clearly worth more than the thousands of words that already
existed.


Finally, I wonder can it really get any worse? I wonder (and seriously
doubt) if folks inside the country can even begin to fathom what sort of
hatred this has generated against us. Thursday night a woman spit at me on
the street.........5 minutes later, while eating dinner in a restaurant, the
news came on the TV and the pictures were broadcast here. I cannot describe
the look that the woman sitting at the nearby table gave me as soon as the
photos came on....i truly wished i could sink into a corner and disappear.
I recently had a lunch conversation with someone who suggested that George
Bush was the international terrorist and it was hypocritical for him to
criticize North Korea so much when we obviously dont have our house in
order.....and while his suggestion that Bush and Kim Jong il are about
equally bad was entirely mistaken, it is still damn difficult to defend very
much of our current policy in the Middle East (could he have jacked the
peace process any more than he did recently?)........and for god sakes this
is what I am experiencing in a country which is a staunch ally.


It is safe to say that bashing the States is fashionable and trendy these
days. Its gotten so bad that I have almost become a nationalist, although,
honestly I cant come up with many good defenses of Bush. I have honestly
gotten tired of apologizing for being an American. There is a whole lot of
good in our country, but Rumsfeld, Cheney and these neoconservative assholes
have unified the globe in their hatred of us. Bush has ****ed away so much
sympathy since 9/11 that now even our allies hate us. Living inside
fortress America it may be easy to tell yourself that we are not the bad
guys and that these are isolated incidents. But when Klemz says we have
crushed our international credibility he is right. These pictures are just
the icing on the cake, but they confirm all of the bull**** and hatred and
negative beliefs that people have about us, justified or not. EVERYONE,
democrat, republican, libertarian, green, and just anyone with a heart
should be outraged.


4 more years of this behavior is truly scary. I cannot imagine how long it
will take to repair the damage, but if we dont change directions soon all of
this will come crashing down on us. There is simply too much global
outrage, and too little humility on the part of our leaders.




Michael Bryant, WA4009SWL
Louisville, KY
R75, S800, RX320, SW77, ICF2010K,
DX398, 7600G, 6800W, RF2200, 7600A
GE SRll, Pro-2006, Pro-2010, Pro-76
(remove "nojunk" to reply)

Michael 'I need meds, but I better not drive' Bryant wrote:

A friend, who is teaching at Kyung Hee University in Seoul, Korea sent me this
letter. Maybe BrenaAnn can confirm whether she finds the same to be true:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------
a view from abroad

Two things are absolutely chilling about this:

1. We have no idea what is going on that hasnt been reported. Clearly
given the extent of the violations that has ALREADY been documented (by the
International Red Cross and the military itself), what kind of horrific ****
is going on that we dont know about? (What have they been doing to people
at Guantanamo, in Afghanistan?)

2. Absent the photos there would not have been international outrage. The
reports by Red Cross were all documents and didnt have the same shock value
as the photos. Domestically, its probably true that this would have never
entered the mainstream of american consciousness. While internationally, it
had already caused damage which most Americans had largely ignored. The
photos actually contextualized this issue and brought it home, PROVING the
allegations of abuse that had already been documented. In this case the
pictures are clearly worth more than the thousands of words that already
existed.

Finally, I wonder can it really get any worse? I wonder (and seriously
doubt) if folks inside the country can even begin to fathom what sort of
hatred this has generated against us. Thursday night a woman spit at me on
the street.........5 minutes later, while eating dinner in a restaurant, the
news came on the TV and the pictures were broadcast here. I cannot describe
the look that the woman sitting at the nearby table gave me as soon as the
photos came on....i truly wished i could sink into a corner and disappear.
I recently had a lunch conversation with someone who suggested that George
Bush was the international terrorist and it was hypocritical for him to
criticize North Korea so much when we obviously dont have our house in
order.....and while his suggestion that Bush and Kim Jong il are about
equally bad was entirely mistaken, it is still damn difficult to defend very
much of our current policy in the Middle East (could he have jacked the
peace process any more than he did recently?)........and for god sakes this
is what I am experiencing in a country which is a staunch ally.

It is safe to say that bashing the States is fashionable and trendy these
days. Its gotten so bad that I have almost become a nationalist, although,
honestly I cant come up with many good defenses of Bush. I have honestly
gotten tired of apologizing for being an American. There is a whole lot of
good in our country, but Rumsfeld, Cheney and these neoconservative assholes
have unified the globe in their hatred of us. Bush has ****ed away so much
sympathy since 9/11 that now even our allies hate us. Living inside
fortress America it may be easy to tell yourself that we are not the bad
guys and that these are isolated incidents. But when Klemz says we have
crushed our international credibility he is right. These pictures are just
the icing on the cake, but they confirm all of the bull**** and hatred and
negative beliefs that people have about us, justified or not. EVERYONE,
democrat, republican, libertarian, green, and just anyone with a heart
should be outraged.

4 more years of this behavior is truly scary. I cannot imagine how long it
will take to repair the damage, but if we dont change directions soon all of
this will come crashing down on us. There is simply too much global
outrage, and too little humility on the part of our leaders.

More fabrication from the Fat Boy!

On 08 May 2004 12:40:34 GMT, ocom (Michael Bryant)
wrote:

A friend, who is teaching at Kyung Hee University in Seoul, Korea sent me this
letter. Maybe BrenaAnn can confirm whether she finds the same to be true:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------
a view from abroad


Two things are absolutely chilling about this:


1. We have no idea what is going on that hasnt been reported. Clearly
given the extent of the violations that has ALREADY been documented (by the
International Red Cross and the military itself), what kind of horrific ****
is going on that we dont know about? (What have they been doing to people
at Guantanamo, in Afghanistan?)


2. Absent the photos there would not have been international outrage. The
reports by Red Cross were all documents and didnt have the same shock value
as the photos. Domestically, its probably true that this would have never
entered the mainstream of american consciousness. While internationally, it
had already caused damage which most Americans had largely ignored. The
photos actually contextualized this issue and brought it home, PROVING the
allegations of abuse that had already been documented. In this case the
pictures are clearly worth more than the thousands of words that already
existed.


Finally, I wonder can it really get any worse? I wonder (and seriously
doubt) if folks inside the country can even begin to fathom what sort of
hatred this has generated against us. Thursday night a woman spit at me on
the street.........5 minutes later, while eating dinner in a restaurant, the
news came on the TV and the pictures were broadcast here. I cannot describe
the look that the woman sitting at the nearby table gave me as soon as the
photos came on....i truly wished i could sink into a corner and disappear.
I recently had a lunch conversation with someone who suggested that George
Bush was the international terrorist and it was hypocritical for him to
criticize North Korea so much when we obviously dont have our house in
order.....and while his suggestion that Bush and Kim Jong il are about
equally bad was entirely mistaken, it is still damn difficult to defend very
much of our current policy in the Middle East (could he have jacked the
peace process any more than he did recently?)........and for god sakes this
is what I am experiencing in a country which is a staunch ally.


It is safe to say that bashing the States is fashionable and trendy these
days. Its gotten so bad that I have almost become a nationalist, although,
honestly I cant come up with many good defenses of Bush. I have honestly
gotten tired of apologizing for being an American. There is a whole lot of
good in our country, but Rumsfeld, Cheney and these neoconservative assholes
have unified the globe in their hatred of us. Bush has ****ed away so much
sympathy since 9/11 that now even our allies hate us. Living inside
fortress America it may be easy to tell yourself that we are not the bad
guys and that these are isolated incidents. But when Klemz says we have
crushed our international credibility he is right. These pictures are just
the icing on the cake, but they confirm all of the bull**** and hatred and
negative beliefs that people have about us, justified or not. EVERYONE,
democrat, republican, libertarian, green, and just anyone with a heart
should be outraged.


4 more years of this behavior is truly scary. I cannot imagine how long it
will take to repair the damage, but if we dont change directions soon all of
this will come crashing down on us. There is simply too much global
outrage, and too little humility on the part of our leaders.




Michael Bryant, WA4009SWL
Louisville, KY
R75, S800, RX320, SW77, ICF2010K,
DX398, 7600G, 6800W, RF2200, 7600A
GE SRll, Pro-2006, Pro-2010, Pro-76
(remove "nojunk" to reply)


Why don't you go over there and see for yourself? Then stay!

Tracy

From: N8KDV

More fabrication from the Fat Boy!

http://ndtceda.com/archives/200405/0154.html


Michael Bryant, WA4009SWL
Louisville, KY
R75, S800, RX320, SW77, ICF2010K,
DX398, 7600G, 6800W, RF2200, 7600A
GE SRll, Pro-2006, Pro-2010, Pro-76
(remove "nojunk" to reply)

Michael 'I haven't a clue' Bryant wrote:

From: N8KDV

More fabrication from the Fat Boy!

http://ndtceda.com/archives/200405/0154.html

So why didn't you give proper attribution Fat Boy?

Tracy Fort wrote:

On Sat, 08 May 2004 10:08:53 -0400, N8KDV
wrote:



Michael 'I haven't a clue' Bryant wrote:

From: N8KDV

More fabrication from the Fat Boy!

http://ndtceda.com/archives/200405/0154.html

So why didn't you give proper attribution Fat Boy?

It's funny! He tried to make it look like a email. It's nothing more
than a forum post from some obscure website.

pitiful...

Yes, it is.

On Sat, 08 May 2004 10:08:53 -0400, N8KDV
wrote:



Michael 'I haven't a clue' Bryant wrote:

From: N8KDV

More fabrication from the Fat Boy!

http://ndtceda.com/archives/200405/0154.html

So why didn't you give proper attribution Fat Boy?

It's funny! He tried to make it look like a email. It's nothing more
than a forum post from some obscure website.

pitiful...


Tracy

From: N8KDV

It's funny! He tried to make it look like a email. It's nothing more
than a forum post from some obscure website.

pitiful...

Yes, it is.


It's the intercollegiate debate website, Mr. Jarvis is a person I've known and
worked for over a decade. First, Steve calls it a fabrication and now he jumps
me for not attributing the source. At least I was real up front about the fact
that the letter was from a teacher in Seoul, rather than trying to pass it off
as my own writing like Steve did with that fake DNC Schedule.....

Hey, Steve and Tracy, you two make a really cute couple!


Michael Bryant, WA4009SWL
Louisville, KY
R75, S800, RX320, SW77, ICF2010K,
DX398, 7600G, 6800W, RF2200, 7600A
GE SRll, Pro-2006, Pro-2010, Pro-76
(remove "nojunk" to reply)

Michael 'I'm just so confused' Bryant wrote:

From: N8KDV

It's funny! He tried to make it look like a email. It's nothing more
than a forum post from some obscure website.

pitiful...

Yes, it is.


It's the intercollegiate debate website, Mr. Jarvis is a person I've known and
worked for over a decade. First, Steve calls it a fabrication and now he jumps
me for not attributing the source. At least I was real up front about the fact
that the letter was from a teacher in Seoul, rather than trying to pass it off
as my own writing like Steve did with that fake DNC Schedule.....

But it was not in a direct email you received, you fat piece of ****!

On 08 May 2004 14:57:20 GMT, ocom (Michael Bryant)
wrote:

From: N8KDV

It's funny! He tried to make it look like a email. It's nothing more
than a forum post from some obscure website.

pitiful...

Yes, it is.


It's the intercollegiate debate website, Mr. Jarvis is a person I've known and
worked for over a decade. First, Steve calls it a fabrication and now he jumps
me for not attributing the source. At least I was real up front about the fact
that the letter was from a teacher in Seoul, rather than trying to pass it off
as my own writing like Steve did with that fake DNC Schedule.....

Hey, Steve and Tracy, you two make a really cute couple!


Michael Bryant, WA4009SWL
Louisville, KY
R75, S800, RX320, SW77, ICF2010K,
DX398, 7600G, 6800W, RF2200, 7600A
GE SRll, Pro-2006, Pro-2010, Pro-76
(remove "nojunk" to reply)


A forum full of useless liberals. I rest my case.

Tracy