In article , Noel
writes:

Llgpt is right, the Soviet Union spent itself out of
existence.


War in Afghanistan, ( against the CIA supported rebels ) Supporting Cuba, then
the arms race and troubles in
the Muslim strongholds ( Chechnia )..,.

- Pfft !

- Regan could have just played Golf & read Peggy Noonan speeches

"Diverd4777" wrote in message
...
| In article , Noel
| writes:
|
| Llgpt is right, the Soviet Union spent itself out of
| existence.
|
|
| War in Afghanistan, ( against the CIA supported rebels ) Supporting Cuba,
then
| the arms race and troubles in
| the Muslim strongholds ( Chechnia )..,.
|
| - Pfft !
|
| - Regan could have just played Golf & read Peggy Noonan speeches

I knew the worms would come crawling out, re-writing history.

Well, I guess if it makes you feel better....

73,

Steve Lawrence
KAØPMD
Burnsville, Minnesota

(NOTE: My email address has only one "dot."
You'll have to edit out the one between the "7"
and the "3" in my email address if you wish to
reply via email)


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In article ,
(Llgpt) writes:

Subject: The Greatest President In My Lifetime


I mostly remember Iran Contra, arms for hostages
and how no one could recall.

Fixing an election rather than fixing a country..

the Beiruit Barracks Bombing

- the flawless timing of the Hostage Release
with Regan taking office...

- And the great speeches Peggy Noonan wrote that he recited..

at (CRUSH THE LEFT) wrote ...

Ronald Reagan. The man who defeated Soviet Communism (no wonder liberals hate
him). May he rest in peace.

Both sides are producing some good points here. So it all started
when Reagan beat Carter in '80. If I recall, Bugs Bunny could have
beaten Carter that year. A few watch-words of the era we
"Double digit inflation" and "Double digit interest rates". Add to
that the Iran hostage crisis.

Why the Democrats chose to run him again is a mystery, ain't it.

In article , John Barnard
wrote:

If you ever get the chance see "Good-bye, Lenin". It's a very good movie
concerning the fall of communism in East Germany.

By all means continue getting your perspective from the movies while the
rest of us stick to reality.

The following from

http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissin...43&sid=4983826

FORMER SOLIDARITY LEADER AND POLISH PRESIDENT LECH WALESA

"When I heard of President Reagan's death, as a Christian I prayed for
him. As a politician I recalled the important role he had played in
the overthrow of world communism.

"Somewhere at the turn of the 1980s a number of politicians and others
at different points on the globe began moving towards a single goal:
the overthrow of the murderous communist system that had the blood of
200 million people on its hands. Reagan was one of the world leaders
who made a major contribution to communism's collapse."

FORMER GERMAN CHANCELLOR HELMUT KOHL, who stood with
Reagan as he made a historic Cold War appeal at the Berlin Wall.

"His consistent championing of freedom contributed decisively to
overcoming the division of Europe and Germany. We Germans
have much to thank Ronald Reagan for."

FORMER SOVIET PRESIDENT MIKHAIL GORBACHEV

"I view Reagan as a great president," said Gorbachev, adding
that his dialogue with Reagan "kick-started the process which
ultimately put an end to the Cold War".

"I do not know how other statesmen would act in his place at the
time. Reagan, who was considered ultra-conservative, dared those
steps and that was his strength."

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Reagan is largely responsible for the mess we're in today.

Reagan nurtured the Mujihadeen, including Osama. Reagan gace Saddam
the chemical weapons he used on the Kurds.

http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/walsh/

Ronald Reagan did a lot of damage.

On 06 Jun 2004 01:12:10 GMT, at (CRUSH THE
LEFT) wrote:

Ronald Reagan. The man who defeated Soviet Communism (no wonder liberals hate
him). May he rest in peace.

So long, Sir. We will continue your fight against the marxist left. And we will
win.

In the Iran initiative, President Reagan chose to proceed in the
utmost secrecy, disregarding the Administration's public policy
prohibiting arms sales to nations supporting terrorism. He also chose
to forgo congressional notification under the National Security Act
and the Arms Export Control Act.2 Having bypassed accountability to
Congress, the President failed either to establish an effective system
of accountability within the Administration or to monitor the series
of activities he authorized.3 Working in a climate of extreme secrecy
and operating without accountability, National Security Adviser John
M. Poindexter, Lt. Col. Oliver L. North of the National Security
Council staff and others associated with the initiative invited
criminal acts including profiteering on the Iranian arms sales, the
diversion of some of those proceeds to aid the contras, destroying
documents, and lying to Congress to cover up their criminal
activities.

2 See discussion on ``The Iran Hostage Initiative, 1985-1986'' later
in this chapter.

3 In his written answers to interrogatories requested by Independent
Counsel and the Grand Jury, Reagan stated that he did not monitor the
details of the Iran arms sales and had no specific knowledge of such
key matters as North's role or Secord's role. The President said he
did not authorize any profits from the sale of arms to Iran and that
he was unaware that there were excess proceeds and that some of them
were diverted to aid the contras.

When the Iran initiative was exposed on November 3, 1986, the
President convened a series of meetings with his top national security
advisers and permitted the creation of a false account of the Iran
arms sales to be disseminated to members of Congress and the American
people.4 These false accounts denied the President's knowledge and
authorization of the initial sales from Israeli stocks of U.S.-made
TOW and HAWK missiles to Iran in August, September and November of
1985. Attorney General Edwin Meese III and others were concerned that
those sales violated the Arms Export Control Act and the National
Security Act of 1947.5 Previously withheld notes by participants in
the November 12 and November 24, 1986, meetings constituted evidence
of an effort to cover up the true facts of the President's
authorization of the 1985 Iran arms sales. But the discovery of the
notes by Independent Counsel came too late to investigate effectively
and to prosecute the false statements involved.6 The passage of time,
claims of dimmed recollections and the running of the statute of
limitations protected the underlying acts.



On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 23:48:34 GMT, David wrote:

Reagan is largely responsible for the mess we're in today.

Reagan nurtured the Mujihadeen, including Osama. Reagan gace Saddam
the chemical weapons he used on the Kurds.

http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/walsh/

Ronald Reagan did a lot of damage.

On 06 Jun 2004 01:12:10 GMT, at (CRUSH THE
LEFT) wrote:

Ronald Reagan. The man who defeated Soviet Communism (no wonder liberals hate
him). May he rest in peace.

So long, Sir. We will continue your fight against the marxist left. And we will
win.

Telamon,

You wouldn't know reality if it bit you on your ass. The fact that you had to
twist the intent of my words is proof enough. Please, feel free to show me
where I stated that the movie should be taken as reality. Have you actually
seen the movie? As Diverd4777 has pointed out "- its an interesting peice
about the fall of Communist East Germany, with some comedy sub plot . . ."

I suggest that you read the following CIA document before crowing about the
Ronald Reagan and the US undoing communism in Eastern Europe. Very shameful
how the USA decided not to warn Solidarity, don't you think?

http://www.cia.gov/csi/books/poland/

Furthermore, the Poles had always been at odds with the Communists. I can damn
well assure you that the Reagan and the gang had nothing to do with various
uprisings in 1956, 1970 and 1976. The Poles brought about the revolution
themselves to eventually free themselves. It wasn't the USA! Live with the
fact!

Please, no more revisionist history from you. I don't care what you thought
you saw in "real time" but a few of my Polish colleagues easily tell a story
different from yours.

Regards

John Barnard

Telamon wrote:

In article , John Barnard
wrote:

If you ever get the chance see "Good-bye, Lenin". It's a very good movie
concerning the fall of communism in East Germany.

By all means continue getting your perspective from the movies while the
rest of us stick to reality.

The following from

http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissin...43&sid=4983826

FORMER SOLIDARITY LEADER AND POLISH PRESIDENT LECH WALESA

"When I heard of President Reagan's death, as a Christian I prayed for
him. As a politician I recalled the important role he had played in
the overthrow of world communism.

"Somewhere at the turn of the 1980s a number of politicians and others
at different points on the globe began moving towards a single goal:
the overthrow of the murderous communist system that had the blood of
200 million people on its hands. Reagan was one of the world leaders
who made a major contribution to communism's collapse."

FORMER GERMAN CHANCELLOR HELMUT KOHL, who stood with
Reagan as he made a historic Cold War appeal at the Berlin Wall.

"His consistent championing of freedom contributed decisively to
overcoming the division of Europe and Germany. We Germans
have much to thank Ronald Reagan for."

FORMER SOVIET PRESIDENT MIKHAIL GORBACHEV

"I view Reagan as a great president," said Gorbachev, adding
that his dialogue with Reagan "kick-started the process which
ultimately put an end to the Cold War".

"I do not know how other statesmen would act in his place at the
time. Reagan, who was considered ultra-conservative, dared those
steps and that was his strength."

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

In article , curmudg@eon (Curmudgeon)
writes:


On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 23:48:34 GMT, David wrote:

Reagan is largely responsible for the mess we're in today.

Reagan nurtured the Mujihadeen, including Osama. Reagan gace Saddam
the chemical weapons he used on the Kurds.

http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/walsh/

Ronald Reagan did a lot of damage.

And just like Ronald the Republicans can't recall any of it.

Greatest President my ASS.


http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/walsh

" Part XI
Concluding Observations

The underlying facts of Iran/contra are that, regardless of criminality,
President Reagan, the secretary of state, the secretary of defense, and the
director of central intelligence and their necessary assistants committed
themselves, however reluctantly, to two programs contrary to congressional
policy and contrary to national policy.
They skirted the law, some of them broke the law, and almost all of them tried
to cover up the President's willful activities. "


Bush Sr. Pardoned them all.

Bush Jr. who might have " Outed " a U.S. Intelligence agent;
Just hired a Lawyer..

Telamon wrote:

In article , John Barnard
wrote:

Go back and take a look at history, Telamon. Eastern Europeans have a
history of standing up to the Russians. Budapest in 1956 and
Czechoslovakia in 1968 come to mind and it was a shame that the USA
decided to abandon those countries and do nothing. The Solidarity
revolution was a Polish revolution which had NOTHING AT ALL to do
with Reagan or the USA. Brenda Ann quite rightly pointed out that the
Poles and the East Germans stood up to the Russians of their own
accord. Poland, out of all the Eastern European block, has always had
the stones to fight back a little and retain some measure of
autonomy.

I've always liked Reagan but he sure as hell didn't have anything to
do with the Solidarity revolution.

Sorry go back and read it yourself. We outspent Russia in the arms race
bankrupting them. When Russia lost the arms race Gorby negotiated the
current state of affairs with Reagan. That's why things changed. The
Polish Solidarity was a help but not the reason. Besides Reagan gave aid
and assistance to the Solidarity union and other opposition groups in
eastern europe.

Neither you nor anyone else can pull this revisionist bull**** on me. I
saw this happen in real time.

You saw what you wanted to see. No single president should get the
credit for winning the arms race. We outspent the USSR for more than
forty years. Every president since Truman contributed to the ultimate
collapse of the USSR. Reagan happened to be president when the end came.


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