Telamon wrote:

That ******* Kerry also managed to block a bill that tied trade with
Vietnam to a reduction in human right abuses. That SOB continues to be
on the wrong side of an issue.


Business over morals anyday, Eh?

Having ethics cuts into the profits, so damn any and all principles to
get a fatter bottom line.

On the other hand, a totalitarian state provides a VERY stable work
force for the foreign owned factories. Slavery will do that for you.

I can see why there's increase in the so called 'Ethical Fund' sort of
investment. Someone has to believe in the inherent dignity of human
beings even if you don't.


mike

On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 05:37 pm -0600 UTC, Telamon
posted: %MM

In article ,
Kameron Spesial wrote:

On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 16:11:23 -0600, uncle arnie
wrote:

On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 03:35 pm -0600 UTC, Telamon
posted: %MM



No that's not right: the US supported the French against the fledgeling
democratic movement, having previously promised the Vietnamese self
gov't for help against the Japanese and then reneged. (The British
reneged
similarly in India.) Drove them into the arms of the communists,who
also lied to them. I suppose the Vietnamese could have simply gone along
with having their country given back to the French. The excuse about not
being about to resist communist agression was concocted later, post hoc.
In 1945, The Chinese were not communist yet, that occurred in 1949,
Russia was in no condition to do anything and had no agents or advisors
in the country. It was up to the US, which could have rejected the
French recolonization of
Vietnam and supported the democracy. But they wanted to restore their
trade with them in Europe. Trade = money, and that's more important
than
any ideology or rights. And it continued merrily along. How about
Chile and Guatemala?


Uncle - can you please keep the topic on shortwave.

Didn't start the OT post, but will rise to the challenge when

Guatemala I have not heard. Chile "Voz Cristiana" normally puts in a
good signal here.

They broadcast MW signals that can be heard in rural Mexico quite well, but
not consistently. I've heard them from Guadalajara area and south. It is
hard to differentiate those signals from other Spanish signals unless you
listen for a while and hear a city name. You can hear MW Guyanese signals
in English at times as well. These are available via SW but I've never
heard Guyana from N. America, except on the internet. Loved them in the
1970's when they replayed old radio soaps.

m II wrote:

Telamon wrote:

That ******* Kerry also managed to block a bill that tied trade with
Vietnam to a reduction in human right abuses. That SOB continues to be
on the wrong side of an issue.

Business over morals anyday, Eh?

And Kerry chose business.



Having ethics cuts into the profits, so damn any and all principles to
get a fatter bottom line.

On the other hand, a totalitarian state provides a VERY stable work
force for the foreign owned factories. Slavery will do that for you.

I can see why there's increase in the so called 'Ethical Fund' sort of
investment. Someone has to believe in the inherent dignity of human
beings even if you don't.

mike

"m II" wrote in message
news:K0P_c.67624$S55.25174@clgrps12...
Brian Hill wrote:

****! Mike. You made Mom cry telling her all that stuff. Now shes on a
plane
for Canada. She said at the top of her lungs- Quote: "I"M GONNA WASH
THAT
LITTLE LONG WINDED COMMIES MOUTH OUT WITH SOAP". And it's that nasty
Lava
soap too. If I were a little commie like you I'd high tail it. Good
luck!


Is she foxy? I *NEED* a good talking to.

mike

She carrys a gun. Remember we're right wingers.

B.H.

In article ,
uncle arnie wrote:

On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 04:35 pm -0600 UTC, Telamon
posted: %MM

In article ,
uncle arnie wrote:

On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 03:35 pm -0600 UTC, Telamon
posted: %MM

In article ,
uncle arnie wrote:

On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 02:09 pm -0600 UTC, Telamon
posted: %MM

In article ,
uncle arnie wrote:

On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 03:16 pm -0600 UTC, Telamon
posted: %MM

In article ,
David wrote:

Published on Friday, June 18, 2004 by CommonDreams.org
Scrooge & Marley, Inc. -- The True Conservative Agenda
by Thom Hartmann

Snip

What a bunch of communist claptrap. Things are much better in
Vietnam since the communists took over, just ask Kerry.


Wrong current enemy. The 5 minutes hate is supposed to directed at
Islamic terrorists, France (or maybe they are okay again),
snivelling liberal wieners.

They are the enemy within.

And have you been to Viet Nam recently? It is not fully recovered
from the
war, but it and its people are doing well. Beautiful country.

I have never been to Vietnam. Maybe some are doing well economically
since we started trading with them but they do not enjoy the
freedoms we have.

I know people that still have relatives in Vietnam and they are not
doing well. Many here in the US send money back to their families
that only want to leave that country. It's a real shame we failed
them and Kerry is one of the reasons we failed.

That ******* Kerry also managed to block a bill that tied trade with
Vietnam to a reduction in human right abuses. That SOB continues to
be on the wrong side of an issue.

Makes perfect sense that trade with the Saudis has never been tied to
human rights abuses. Too bad another 2.5 million of those danged
Vietnamese
couldn't have been killed. Clean the place up properly. Then they
wouldn't be whining about Starbucks, Folger's, Nabob and the like for
persuading them to grow coffee instead of food and then driving the
price down below production costs. And anyone could see that it's
better to grow the rice in
Texas and ship it back to them at profit. Get the farmers to move to
the cities, working in factories at 70 cents per day making shoes for
export. Their daughters can entertain the tourists.

What only kind of deal do you the communist bosses make are one that
benefits the party not the people. Thanks for making my point.

Same deal made with coffee farmers all over the world. The US doesn't
really care about anything except the corporate bottom line and the
balance of trade.

We are not supposed to care. It's called free trade. If the foreign
governments don't have the best interests of their people in mind what
are we supposed to do about it other than pass a bill to protect those
people by limiting trade unless human rights conditions improve in those
countries. You know a bill like the one Kerry spiked.

Otherwise armed intervention is the only other option.

Good thing that in 1945-46 the US rejected the proposed Vietnamese
constitution (taken almost word for work from the American
constitution), recalled their advisors, and told the French to come
back in. They could see that the Vietnamese were going to become
commies anyway and were too
stupid to run their own country. And look how those ungrateful French
turned out. Jeez, those winos are nearly commies today.

I wouldn't know about that.

You should! It's the basis for the 20th century history of the region.

The US position was that they could not
support themselves against communist aggression. Looks like we were
right.

No that's not right: the US supported the French against the fledgeling
democratic movement, having previously promised the Vietnamese self gov't
for help against the Japanese and then reneged. (The British reneged
similarly in India.) Drove them into the arms of the communists,who also
lied to them. I suppose the Vietnamese could have simply gone along with
having their country given back to the French. The excuse about not being
about to resist communist agression was concocted later, post hoc. In
1945, The Chinese were not communist yet, that occurred in 1949, Russia
was in no condition to do anything and had no agents or advisors in the
country. It was up to the US, which could have rejected the French
recolonization of
Vietnam and supported the democracy. But they wanted to restore their
trade with them in Europe. Trade = money, and that's more important than
any ideology or rights. And it continued merrily along. How about Chile
and Guatemala?

You have the wrong take on this. The idea was to build up a modern
country and economy in the backward parts of the world. They were
supposed to become self sufficient thru trade.

It is not this countries policy to support colonization anymore.

Yes it is. Economic colonization. Hence corporations forcing their way in
everywhere. Different methods, same outcome. Lots of money and materiel
for the homeland. Self sufficiency through trade means export the
countries' economic value to the controlling country. This has not worked
since the post-WW2 Marshall plan. Unfortunately. The gap between "donor"
and "receiving" countries continues to grow. And the best sort of gov't in
the recipient country is dictatorship apparently, be it military,
monarchist. But it increases the rich-poor gap in the country and
eventually leads to instability and disaster. Makes the decision making
easy though. I'm telling you what peoples in a series of countries feel.
Until their understanding and life conditions are understood, the dangerous
international situation will continue. Or we can plan some more wars.

This is what the leaders of the free world have worked out. I sure hope
you have not bought into the socialist communist dogma of the workers
paradise and if not that then what is your solution?

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

In article o8P_c.67625$S55.4903@clgrps12,
m II wrote:

Telamon wrote:

That ******* Kerry also managed to block a bill that tied trade with
Vietnam to a reduction in human right abuses. That SOB continues to be
on the wrong side of an issue.


Business over morals anyday, Eh?

Having ethics cuts into the profits, so damn any and all principles to
get a fatter bottom line.

On the other hand, a totalitarian state provides a VERY stable work
force for the foreign owned factories. Slavery will do that for you.

I can see why there's increase in the so called 'Ethical Fund' sort of
investment. Someone has to believe in the inherent dignity of human
beings even if you don't.

You got it backward Mike you goof-ball. Try reading it again. You
stinking liberals cry any time a corporation makes money but its OK for
a communist regime to abuse its own people.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Brian Hill wrote:

Is she foxy? I *NEED* a good talking to.

She carrys a gun. Remember we're right wingers.

I understand gun ownership knows no political boundaries. The American
section of the lunatic zionist fringe is so well armed the ATF is
investigating them. One of them got hauled up a while back for plotting
to blow up American Mosques.

But, back to more pleasant talk...

What colour is the holster? Better still...is it stuck into the top of
one of the fishnet stockings? Is it a petite Beretta or a Buntline Colt?
Very unfeminine if it is a Buntline. Freud the Fraud woulda had a field
day with her.



mike

Telamon wrote:

You got it backward Mike you goof-ball. Try reading it again.

Ok. I typed too quick. He DOES seem to think it will do more damage than
good.


You stinking liberals

Name calling gets you nowhere, snookums.

cry any time a corporation makes money but its OK for
a communist regime to abuse its own people.

Making money is a fine thing. Making it via government corruption is
another matter entirely. BECOMING the government in order to make even
MORE money is purely obscene. Starting wars for profit after you are in
a position of power should pretty well guarantee you a place in Hell.

Any totalitarian state is evil. Power does that. That's what's so
frightening about Washington. It's on the edge of the abyss with a Nero
like figure playing fiddle. Second fiddle actually. Cheney and Ashcroft
have leading roles.

Notice how Perle and Wolfowitz have disappeared into the woodwork since
the 'Mission Accomplished' celebration. Worms.



=================================
'Senator Kerry has good connection with the Hanoi government,'' said
Hien thi Ngo, chairwoman of the Committee for Religious Freedom in
Vietnam, based in Washington, D.C., who will attend the protest. ''He
wants their trust and they don't want this bill.''

One criticism of the bill is that it hurts the people of Vietnam, a
population of 80 million that ranks their nation as the world's
13th-most populous, though it is still among the poorest in the world.
=================================




mike

In article sVS_c.118858$X12.15759@edtnps84,
m II wrote:

Telamon wrote:

You got it backward Mike you goof-ball. Try reading it again.

Ok. I typed too quick. He DOES seem to think it will do more damage than
good.


You stinking liberals

Name calling gets you nowhere, snookums.

cry any time a corporation makes money but its OK for
a communist regime to abuse its own people.

Making money is a fine thing. Making it via government corruption is
another matter entirely. BECOMING the government in order to make even
MORE money is purely obscene. Starting wars for profit after you are in
a position of power should pretty well guarantee you a place in Hell.

Any totalitarian state is evil. Power does that. That's what's so
frightening about Washington. It's on the edge of the abyss with a Nero
like figure playing fiddle. Second fiddle actually. Cheney and Ashcroft
have leading roles.

Notice how Perle and Wolfowitz have disappeared into the woodwork since
the 'Mission Accomplished' celebration. Worms.



=================================
'Senator Kerry has good connection with the Hanoi government,'' said
Hien thi Ngo, chairwoman of the Committee for Religious Freedom in
Vietnam, based in Washington, D.C., who will attend the protest. ''He
wants their trust and they don't want this bill.''

Yes, they consider him a hero of the Vietnam war. His picture hangs in
their war museum because he helped them win it.

One criticism of the bill is that it hurts the people of Vietnam, a
population of 80 million that ranks their nation as the world's
13th-most populous, though it is still among the poorest in the world.
=================================

Yeah, and do you know who it would hurt more? Your clue is a very close
relative of Kerry that runs an import business. Now go do some more
research.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Commerce was a tyranny that Jefferson warned about. We've always had
tariffs and other taxes. The idea that the USA is supposed to be an
unregulated commercial Utopia is a robber baron myth.

On 5 Sep 2004 13:24:31 -0700, (RHF) wrote:

= = = David wrote in message
= = = . ..
The last thing the corporations want is for the population to know
what the founding principles of this country are.

This country was started to provide a place where government and
commerce served the people. Not the other way around.

DAVID- You have it slighly distorted:

This country was started to provide a place where government
served the people. (For the People, By the People, Of the People)

This country was started to provide a place where the people
could participate in commerce freely. (Without unnecessary or
excessive government interference; be it regulation or taxes.)

~ RHF
.
.