Sanjaya wrote:

I've read and heard both sides of the argument about
antenna tuners being great, or not helping at all and are
a waste of money. I've been told they are only for shortwave
transmitting, and I've been told they work well to improve shortwave
reception on faint signals. I've had it suggested to me that I
get a pre-selector instead.

I can't find anyone who actually experimented with either a tuner or pre-selector... at least
none of what I've read and heard was stated as "experience"... rather
it seemed like theory or conjecture.

Does anyone here actually use a tuner or pre-selector for shortwave listening, and if so,
with what results? I'm looking at the MFJ-959C antenna tuner at
http://www.universal-radio.com/catal...amps/2574.html
Note that it says "for receive only".

If you're using a portable receiver with a fairly long external antenna,
a passive preselector would be the most useful device between the
antenna and receiver. It would help to eliminate the symptoms of signal
overloading caused by insufficient dynamic range in the receiver. I used
a preselector with the Sony-2010, connected to an inverted-L antenna. It
made a big difference with reducing intermod's.

Quality table-top receivers like the Drake-R8, Icom-R75, AOR-7030 and
many others, don't need a pre-selector or antenna tuner to enhance
reception. They work very well when connected directly to a well
designed external antenna. My R8B uses an inverted-L with a good 'RF'
grounding system to reduce the noise from domestic sources like
televisions and computers. Keeping the noise down is more important than
getting the last bit of energy from the antenna with a tuner.

BTW- The MFJ-959C is "for receive only" because it's componants can't
handle the power from a transmitter. Universal is not trying to give
their opinion on whether you should or should not use an antenna tuner
for receiving.


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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"The Axelrods" wrote in message ...


Sanjaya wrote:

I've read and heard both sides of the argument about
antenna tuners being great, or not helping at all and are
a waste of money. I've been told they are only for shortwave
transmitting, and I've been told they work well to improve shortwave
reception on faint signals. I've had it suggested to me that I
get a pre-selector instead.

I can't find anyone who actually experimented with either a tuner or pre-selector... at least
none of what I've read and heard was stated as "experience"... rather
it seemed like theory or conjecture.

Does anyone here actually use a tuner or pre-selector for shortwave listening, and if so,
with what results? I'm looking at the MFJ-959C antenna tuner at
http://www.universal-radio.com/catal...amps/2574.html
Note that it says "for receive only".




I use an old Grove MiniTun3. It has all of 2 knobs one to select a
frequency range the other to tune for best signal. It woorks well from
500 kHz to 30 mHz. I find it most usefull on lower frequencies in
particular below 4 mHz. It use it with my 135 foot longwire that goes to
my ICOM and Drake receivers. It is not a cure all but helps

--
73 and Best of DX
Shawn Axelrod
VE4DX1SMA


Thanks Shawn.

"Ken Wilson" wrote in message ...

"Sanjaya" wrote in message
ink.net...
I've read and heard both sides of the argument about
antenna tuners being great, or not helping at all and are
a waste of money.

IMHO..... for receive only I would not bother with one. If you want the
maximum signal transfer then a tuner will make the receiver see the proper
impedence... therefore more signal. Also more noise. Signal/noise ratio is
what matters for a receiver. I very rarely run my receivers without the RF
gain reduced 25-40% depending on noise.

In the last ARRL 160 meter CW contest I operated in....2001... I did not
have a beverage or any "special receive" antenna. Turns out a 5 element
Force12 Yagi for the 10 meter band @ 50 feet was the best.....lowest
signal/noise ratio....for most of the 1100 or so stations I worked. What was
the impedence mismatch? Beats me.... but it worked .

73 es DX Ken KG4BIG


Thank you Ken.

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
"Sanjaya" wrote:

I've read and heard both sides of the argument about antenna tuners
being great, or not helping at all and are a waste of money. I've
been told they are only for shortwave transmitting, and I've been
told they work well to improve shortwave reception on faint signals.
I've had it suggested to me that I get a pre-selector instead.

I can't find anyone who actually experimented with either a tuner or
pre-selector... at least none of what I've read and heard was stated
as "experience"... rather it seemed like theory or conjecture.

Does anyone here actually use a tuner or pre-selector for shortwave
listening, and if so, with what results? I'm looking at the MFJ-959C
antenna tuner at
http://www.universal-radio.com/catal...amps/2574.html Note that it
says "for receive only".

A tuner solves a specific problem. If you don't have that problem it's
not going to help much. The problem is selectivity. If your radio has
enough for your listening situation then the tuner will not do much for
you other than boost the signal a little that you are trying to hear.
The tuner will reduce the other signals above and below where it is
tuned to your radio.

There are various types of tuners that behave somewhat differently but
this is the GENERIC explanation for them.

You can the maximum benefit from a tuner if it is used to resonate an
ordinarily non-resonant antenna like a random wire Marconi type antenna.
For this to work well the wire is directly connected to the tuner and
then the tuner is connected by coax to the radio. The tuner changes the
ELECTRICAL LENGTH of the wire so it resonates at some frequency. The
boost from using the tuner to resonate the wire can make the difference
between hearing a very weak signal or helping to make it more legible if
it is next to a much stronger station on a nearby channel.

It is basically a DX'ing tool used to tweak the antenna situation in
order to get the weakest of stations.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Thanks Telamon.

"starman" wrote in message ...
Sanjaya wrote:

I've read and heard both sides of the argument about
antenna tuners being great, or not helping at all and are
a waste of money. I've been told they are only for shortwave
transmitting, and I've been told they work well to improve shortwave
reception on faint signals. I've had it suggested to me that I
get a pre-selector instead.

I can't find anyone who actually experimented with either a tuner or pre-selector... at least
none of what I've read and heard was stated as "experience"... rather
it seemed like theory or conjecture.

Does anyone here actually use a tuner or pre-selector for shortwave listening, and if so,
with what results? I'm looking at the MFJ-959C antenna tuner at
http://www.universal-radio.com/catal...amps/2574.html
Note that it says "for receive only".

If you're using a portable receiver with a fairly long external antenna,
a passive preselector would be the most useful device between the
antenna and receiver. It would help to eliminate the symptoms of signal
overloading caused by insufficient dynamic range in the receiver. I used
a preselector with the Sony-2010, connected to an inverted-L antenna. It
made a big difference with reducing intermod's.

Quality table-top receivers like the Drake-R8, Icom-R75, AOR-7030 and
many others, don't need a pre-selector or antenna tuner to enhance
reception. They work very well when connected directly to a well
designed external antenna. My R8B uses an inverted-L with a good 'RF'
grounding system to reduce the noise from domestic sources like
televisions and computers. Keeping the noise down is more important than
getting the last bit of energy from the antenna with a tuner.

BTW- The MFJ-959C is "for receive only" because it's componants can't
handle the power from a transmitter. Universal is not trying to give
their opinion on whether you should or should not use an antenna tuner
for receiving.


Thanks for clearing that up Starman.

= = = "Sanjaya" wrote in message
= = = link.net...
I've read and heard both sides of the argument about
antenna tuners being great, or not helping at all and are
a waste of money. I've been told they are only for shortwave
transmitting, and I've been told they work well to improve shortwave
reception on faint signals. I've had it suggested to me that I
get a pre-selector instead.

I can't find anyone who actually experimented with either a tuner or pre-selector... at least
none of what I've read and heard was stated as "experience"... rather
it seemed like theory or conjecture.

Does anyone here actually use a tuner or pre-selector for shortwave listening, and if so,
with what results? I'm looking at the MFJ-959C antenna tuner at
http://www.universal-radio.com/catal...amps/2574.html
Note that it says "for receive only".

SANJAYA,

The Age Old SWL'ers Question:
Do I Need a Antenna Tuner ? -or- a Pre-Selector ?

The MFJ-959 is OK for what it does. The one feature that would
interest me would be the ability to use it with Two (2) Radios
and Two (2) Antennas. Switch between the Radios and Antennas.
The built-in Amplifier can be helpful for hearing weak signals.

If you are using a simply Random Wire Antenna or any Antenna
with a 'direct' Coax Cable Feed-in-Line. The MFJ-959 should
help in 'matching' you Antenna to the Radio's Input and
improving your signal transfer.

HOWEVER - If you are using an Improved SWL Random Wire Antenna
that uses a 9:1 Matching Transformer (Balun / MLB) then you may
not see any real 'improvement' in your receive signal.

This is the so called "Low Noise" SWL Antenna.
[ Please READ These Three Links ]
http://www.anarc.org/naswa/badx/ante...e_antenna.html
http://www.anarc.org/naswa/badx/ante..._longwire.html
http://www.anarc.org/naswa/badx/antennas/grounding.html
ABOUT THE "LOW NOISE" ANTENNA 'DESIGN CONCEPTS':
A Random Wire Antenna Element coupled via a 9:1 Matching
Transformer at the Near-End of the Antenna with a Ground Rod
and Coax Cable Feed-in-Line to the Receiver. This is the basic
SWL Antenna that uses the "Low Noise Antenna" 'design concepts'
that were popularized by John Doty.

You may also wish to consider these two other MFJ Products:
* MFJ-1045C SWL Receiver Pre-Selector with built-in Amplifier
which covers the Shortwave Bands from 1.8 to 54 MHz.
http://www.universal-radio.com/catal...amps/0807.html
* MFJ-1020C Indoor Active Antenna which covers 300 kHz to
40 MHz (LW, AM/MW and SW Bands) in five bands; and when used
with an External (OutSide) Antenna, the MFJ-1020C functions
as a Pre-Selector.
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/sw_ant/1413.html


FWIW: I use a Low Noise SWL Antenna with a Grove Mini-Tuner
"TUN 3" which is very much like the MFJ-956 MFJ-956 Long Wave,
Medium Wave and Shortwave Pre-Selector Tuner.
http://www.universal-radio.com/catal...amps/2964.html
- Most times I simply use it in the ByPass Mode.
- Sometimes I will switch it over ti Fine-Tune a Signal.
- The major reason I use it is to Switch-Out "Ground-Out"
the Antenna when I am not using the Radio for Safety.

READ: John Wagner's Shortwave Tips & Tricks
http://www.dxing.com/tips.htm
- Section: Antennas for Portable Receivers
- Point # (7) The Wagner Active Preseletor Antenna

READ: Antenna Tuner, radio preselector, what is the difference?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortw...a/message/1119
- Five "Do-It-Yourself" Antenna Turners with Schematics
- Impedance Matching Unit VS. Pre-Selector/ATU
- Pre-Selectors = So Many Choices . . .
- Antenna Tuner / Pre-Selector = The 'little' Box that May Help !


iane ~ RHF
..
Some Say: On A Clear Day You Can See Forever.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortw...na/message/502
I BELIEVE: On A Clear Night...
You Can Hear Forever and Beyond, The Beyond !
..
..

Radio Man wrote:
Mark...Can you be specific on what type and/or impeadance of the
transformer you are using? Also what antennas are you using it on?

I mostly use 9:1 impedance matching transformers I wound myself
according to the directions on CW's web site.

http://www.kc7nod.20m.com/new_page_1.htm

On antennas:

#1 is out at the moment because of a lightning strike a few weeks ago
and I've been too busy to get it replaced - but it was a 65' random wire
made with #14 wire that's 225 feet away from my house (and farther from
the neighbors) The coax is underground. It gets practically no RFI.
I'm sure it would work almost as well if it was 60-70 feet away from the
house, but I don't have tall sturdy trees there.

Here's a web site with a discussion of this type of antenna.

http://www.anarc.org/naswa/badx/antennas/low-noise_antenna.html

#2 is a triangular horizontal loop antenna that's partially over the
house. It was made with about 150 feet of #14 wire. Loops are low
noise designs, but my house is filled with gizmos that cause rfi, so
it's not my favorite. It has a 4:1 impedance matching transformer.

#3 was my first antenna at the house - it's 40 feet of wire stapled to
the rafters in my attic. It's closer to the RFI and I haven't used it
in years. 9:1 transformer.

#4 is my current camping and vacation antenna. It's a 3 meter folding
whip originally intended for a PRC-25 or PRC-77 with a 9:1 impedance
matching transformer that mounts onto a photographic tripod. It works
quite well.

#5 is an Electro-Metrics ALR-25 Loop. I still need to create a control
box to switch bands on it electrically, but ultimately, this may become
the "portable" antenna for places I can drive to where I need to use an
indoor antenna. This has it's own impedance matching circuitry built
in.

I have some extra #43 ferrite's on hand that are a little smaller than
the one CW's design calls for. They work well. If you'd like one, you
can have it for the price of a small padded mailing bag and a couple of
stamps. Contact me directly for details.

"RHF" wrote in message
om...
= = = "Sanjaya" wrote in message
= = = link.net...
I've read and heard both sides of the argument about
antenna tuners being great, or not helping at all and are
a waste of money. I've been told they are only for shortwave
transmitting, and I've been told they work well to improve shortwave
reception on faint signals. I've had it suggested to me that I
get a pre-selector instead.

I can't find anyone who actually experimented with either a tuner or pre-selector... at least
none of what I've read and heard was stated as "experience"... rather
it seemed like theory or conjecture.

Does anyone here actually use a tuner or pre-selector for shortwave listening, and if so,
with what results? I'm looking at the MFJ-959C antenna tuner at
http://www.universal-radio.com/catal...amps/2574.html
Note that it says "for receive only".

SANJAYA,

The Age Old SWL'ers Question:
Do I Need a Antenna Tuner ? -or- a Pre-Selector ?

The MFJ-959 is OK for what it does. The one feature that would
interest me would be the ability to use it with Two (2) Radios
and Two (2) Antennas. Switch between the Radios and Antennas.
The built-in Amplifier can be helpful for hearing weak signals.

If you are using a simply Random Wire Antenna or any Antenna
with a 'direct' Coax Cable Feed-in-Line. The MFJ-959 should
help in 'matching' you Antenna to the Radio's Input and
improving your signal transfer.

HOWEVER - If you are using an Improved SWL Random Wire Antenna
that uses a 9:1 Matching Transformer (Balun / MLB) then you may
not see any real 'improvement' in your receive signal.

This is the so called "Low Noise" SWL Antenna.
[ Please READ These Three Links ]
http://www.anarc.org/naswa/badx/ante...e_antenna.html
http://www.anarc.org/naswa/badx/ante..._longwire.html
http://www.anarc.org/naswa/badx/antennas/grounding.html
ABOUT THE "LOW NOISE" ANTENNA 'DESIGN CONCEPTS':
A Random Wire Antenna Element coupled via a 9:1 Matching
Transformer at the Near-End of the Antenna with a Ground Rod
and Coax Cable Feed-in-Line to the Receiver. This is the basic
SWL Antenna that uses the "Low Noise Antenna" 'design concepts'
that were popularized by John Doty.

You may also wish to consider these two other MFJ Products:
* MFJ-1045C SWL Receiver Pre-Selector with built-in Amplifier
which covers the Shortwave Bands from 1.8 to 54 MHz.
http://www.universal-radio.com/catal...amps/0807.html
* MFJ-1020C Indoor Active Antenna which covers 300 kHz to
40 MHz (LW, AM/MW and SW Bands) in five bands; and when used
with an External (OutSide) Antenna, the MFJ-1020C functions
as a Pre-Selector.
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/sw_ant/1413.html


FWIW: I use a Low Noise SWL Antenna with a Grove Mini-Tuner
"TUN 3" which is very much like the MFJ-956 MFJ-956 Long Wave,
Medium Wave and Shortwave Pre-Selector Tuner.
http://www.universal-radio.com/catal...amps/2964.html
- Most times I simply use it in the ByPass Mode.
- Sometimes I will switch it over ti Fine-Tune a Signal.
- The major reason I use it is to Switch-Out "Ground-Out"
the Antenna when I am not using the Radio for Safety.

READ: John Wagner's Shortwave Tips & Tricks
http://www.dxing.com/tips.htm
- Section: Antennas for Portable Receivers
- Point # (7) The Wagner Active Preseletor Antenna

READ: Antenna Tuner, radio preselector, what is the difference?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortw...a/message/1119
- Five "Do-It-Yourself" Antenna Turners with Schematics
- Impedance Matching Unit VS. Pre-Selector/ATU
- Pre-Selectors = So Many Choices . . .
- Antenna Tuner / Pre-Selector = The 'little' Box that May Help !


iane ~ RHF
.
Some Say: On A Clear Day You Can See Forever.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortw...na/message/502
I BELIEVE: On A Clear Night...
You Can Hear Forever and Beyond, The Beyond !
.
.

Thanks RHF. Checking your links.

We use an antenna tuner to feed our W8JK antenna for use for shortwave
reception for two reasons:
1. The 8JK has a high impedence input so it is fed with 300 ohm ladder
line; thus the use of the tuner (in this case) acts as a balanced
transformer.
2. The 8JK was "cut" for 20 meters. For use on other frequencies, the
tuner acts (with adjustment) as a conjugate match that provides a 50 ohm
input to the receiver.

Results of the tuner appears to peak signal strength as the impedence of
the receiving antenna is transformed by the matching provided by the tuner.

Tuners are passive in nature; that is, they require no amplifier
electronics and associated power. They may be unbalanced input to
balanced output (or vice versa) or unbalanced to unbalanced
input/output. Preselectors on the other hand are active devices. They
vary in design and may provide matching as well as gain.

The selection of the device you choose will depend on the type on
antenna system you employ.

In any case, good luck!

John
Sanjaya wrote:
I've read and heard both sides of the argument about
antenna tuners being great, or not helping at all and are
a waste of money. I've been told they are only for shortwave
transmitting, and I've been told they work well to improve shortwave
reception on faint signals. I've had it suggested to me that I
get a pre-selector instead.

I can't find anyone who actually experimented with either a tuner or pre-selector... at least
none of what I've read and heard was stated as "experience"... rather
it seemed like theory or conjecture.

Does anyone here actually use a tuner or pre-selector for shortwave listening, and if so,
with what results? I'm looking at the MFJ-959C antenna tuner at
http://www.universal-radio.com/catal...amps/2574.html
Note that it says "for receive only".

In article . net,
"Sanjaya" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
..
.
In article . net,
"Sanjaya" wrote:

I've read and heard both sides of the argument about antenna tuners
being great, or not helping at all and are a waste of money. I've
been told they are only for shortwave transmitting, and I've been
told they work well to improve shortwave reception on faint signals.
I've had it suggested to me that I get a pre-selector instead.

I can't find anyone who actually experimented with either a tuner or
pre-selector... at least none of what I've read and heard was stated
as "experience"... rather it seemed like theory or conjecture.

Does anyone here actually use a tuner or pre-selector for shortwave
listening, and if so, with what results? I'm looking at the MFJ-959C
antenna tuner at
http://www.universal-radio.com/catal...amps/2574.html Note that it
says "for receive only".

A tuner solves a specific problem. If you don't have that problem it's
not going to help much. The problem is selectivity. If your radio has
enough for your listening situation then the tuner will not do much for
you other than boost the signal a little that you are trying to hear.
The tuner will reduce the other signals above and below where it is
tuned to your radio.

There are various types of tuners that behave somewhat differently but
this is the GENERIC explanation for them.

You can the maximum benefit from a tuner if it is used to resonate an
ordinarily non-resonant antenna like a random wire Marconi type antenna.
For this to work well the wire is directly connected to the tuner and
then the tuner is connected by coax to the radio. The tuner changes the
ELECTRICAL LENGTH of the wire so it resonates at some frequency. The
boost from using the tuner to resonate the wire can make the difference
between hearing a very weak signal or helping to make it more legible if
it is next to a much stronger station on a nearby channel.

It is basically a DX'ing tool used to tweak the antenna situation in
order to get the weakest of stations.


Thanks Telamon.

Your welcome and I meant to say above "You can get the maximum benefit"
at the start of the second paragraph up.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California