I have a confession to make; I've always wanted an outdoor
antenna, but I was never either allowed to (when I was a kid)
or wasn't pratical do run one. Well, I now have the ability
to run one outside, but there are some questions I have about
some of the gagetry that is available these days.

Since I'm planning on running a random wire until I can figure
out a more permanent location for a trap antenna that I'll
build (assuming that I still have that old article from Pop Comm
(or was it Audio?) lying around), I'm not so concerned about
the antenna itself as some of the other goodies.

First, the coax. I noticed that Rat Shack was running a special
on their RG-58U coax for $0.11/ft, but I also know that RG-8 is
has better attenuation numbers. My run of coax is about
60-70 ft or so (at least initially, I'll probably remove some of
the built-in slack in my estimates once I'm satisfied with where
the antenna will be). Should I worry about attenuation for the
HF bands enough to use the RG-8 over the RG-58??

Second, a lightning arrestor. Are those Alpha Delta Transitraps
as good as advertised, or should I stick with a regular gas
discharge variety??

Third, has anyone run an external antenna to their Sat 800?? I'm
curious as to your setup, since it's a plastic case and the old
ground connection that I was used to on my old Icom R-70
isn't around, so I was wondering if anyone bothers to try to
ground the outer jacket of the coax. (Yeah, I know that that
ground on the R-70 was for the casing, and that this means we'll
open a can of worms here, but I figure I'd ask anyway.)

--Mike L.

Michael Lawson wrote:

I have a confession to make; I've always wanted an outdoor
antenna, but I was never either allowed to (when I was a kid)
or wasn't pratical do run one. Well, I now have the ability
to run one outside, but there are some questions I have about
some of the gagetry that is available these days.

Since I'm planning on running a random wire until I can figure
out a more permanent location for a trap antenna that I'll
build (assuming that I still have that old article from Pop Comm
(or was it Audio?) lying around), I'm not so concerned about
the antenna itself as some of the other goodies.

First, the coax. I noticed that Rat Shack was running a special
on their RG-58U coax for $0.11/ft, but I also know that RG-8 is
has better attenuation numbers. My run of coax is about
60-70 ft or so (at least initially, I'll probably remove some of
the built-in slack in my estimates once I'm satisfied with where
the antenna will be). Should I worry about attenuation for the
HF bands enough to use the RG-8 over the RG-58??


Personally, for receiving, I'd be more concerned about using radio shaft
brand coax than the difference between RG-8 and rg-58.

Last I knew, their coax wasn't very well shielded.

Second, a lightning arrestor. Are those Alpha Delta Transitraps
as good as advertised, or should I stick with a regular gas
discharge variety??


I use a polyphaser - it works well. Couldn't tell you about the others.

Third, has anyone run an external antenna to their Sat 800?? I'm
curious as to your setup, since it's a plastic case and the old
ground connection that I was used to on my old Icom R-70
isn't around, so I was wondering if anyone bothers to try to
ground the outer jacket of the coax. (Yeah, I know that that
ground on the R-70 was for the casing, and that this means we'll
open a can of worms here, but I figure I'd ask anyway.)

My advice is to use an impedance matching transformer, and ground the
coax by the antenna.

--Mike L.

Should I worry about attenuation for the
HF bands enough to use the RG-8 over the RG-58??

Without some experimentation, it would be hard to say definitively, but I'd say
not to worry about it much. If you can get the RG8 cheaply enough, great, but
it's stiffer and more difficult to maneuver around walls and fences, etc. If
that's not an issue for you, use the bigger stuff, but for a Sat800 and a
listening only situation, you probably wouldn't notice the difference.

Are those Alpha Delta Transitraps
as good as advertised, or should I stick with a regular gas
discharge variety??

USe what you can afford, but ensure a good connection to a ground rod. The
Transitrap units do work very well, but no arrestor will do good against a
direct strike (a handful of personal experiences notwithstanding). The
gas-discharge types are therefore no less advantageous in my opinion than the
Transitrap. Detach your lead-in from your radio when anything threatens, and
the difference between the two types will be negligible.

I'm planning on running a random wire until I can figure
out a more permanent location for a trap antenna that I'll
build

Since you're using a Sat800 in a RX only circumstance, you might wish to
consider, if space is no longer a real problem, to avoid trap antennas and
stick with whatever length of wire you can get outside and as high in the air
as possible. Traps can be lossy and if cheap can introduce noise into the
system, whereas a decently erected randomwire will reduce noise if the coax is
grounded (referring to another question, you should ground your coax for noise
purposes at the very least. Plastic case or not, it helps reduce noise.
You're using a nice radio there, and it's about as good as most other radios in
its price range (and better than some) but it's not crucial where antenna
experimentation is concerned. I'd say avoid traps, ground the coax shield at
the receiver AND antenna ends, and enjoy a more noise-free set up.
MY opinion only, of course. Tinker a lot, it's a hell of a lot of fun!
Linus

On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 21:19:00 -0500, Michael Lawson wrote
(in article ):

I have a confession to make; I've always wanted an outdoor
antenna, but I was never either allowed to (when I was a kid)
or wasn't pratical do run one. Well, I now have the ability
to run one outside, but there are some questions I have about
some of the gagetry that is available these days.



Why not start out easy?

Grab one of the ten dollar RadioShack 66 footers - either the one with
the insulators and lead (bell wire) or only the twisted copper.

The "random length" is really, pretty much, the baseline against which
all the others are measured but it's also just a darn good antenna, in
and of itself.

As far as lightning protection goes, the best protection is the lead-in
out the window and screwed onto a ground rod (or a coax connector that
is melded into the ground rod if you're usin' coax).

Here, in Central Mississippi, we have very violent storms and it's a
bad idea to keep an antenna connected for several months a year. I
use(d) a ceramic based knife switch (a BIG one) for normal use and
threw te thing out the window when the air had "that feeling".


Gray Shockley
----------------
DX-392 DX-398
RX-320 DX-396
CCradio+ w/RS Loop
Justice AM Antenna
Torus Tuner (3-13 MHz)
Select-A-Tenna
---------------------
Vicksburg, MS US




Since I'm planning on running a random wire until I can figure
out a more permanent location for a trap antenna that I'll
build (assuming that I still have that old article from Pop Comm
(or was it Audio?) lying around), I'm not so concerned about
the antenna itself as some of the other goodies.

First, the coax. I noticed that Rat Shack was running a special
on their RG-58U coax for $0.11/ft, but I also know that RG-8 is
has better attenuation numbers. My run of coax is about
60-70 ft or so (at least initially, I'll probably remove some of
the built-in slack in my estimates once I'm satisfied with where
the antenna will be). Should I worry about attenuation for the
HF bands enough to use the RG-8 over the RG-58??

Second, a lightning arrestor. Are those Alpha Delta Transitraps
as good as advertised, or should I stick with a regular gas
discharge variety??

Third, has anyone run an external antenna to their Sat 800?? I'm
curious as to your setup, since it's a plastic case and the old
ground connection that I was used to on my old Icom R-70
isn't around, so I was wondering if anyone bothers to try to
ground the outer jacket of the coax. (Yeah, I know that that
ground on the R-70 was for the casing, and that this means we'll
open a can of worms here, but I figure I'd ask anyway.)

--Mike L.

"Gray Shockley" wrote in message
.com...
On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 21:19:00 -0500, Michael Lawson wrote
(in article ):

I have a confession to make; I've always wanted an outdoor
antenna, but I was never either allowed to (when I was a kid)
or wasn't pratical do run one. Well, I now have the ability
to run one outside, but there are some questions I have about
some of the gagetry that is available these days.



Why not start out easy?

Grab one of the ten dollar RadioShack 66 footers - either the one
with
the insulators and lead (bell wire) or only the twisted copper.

The "random length" is really, pretty much, the baseline against
which
all the others are measured but it's also just a darn good antenna,
in
and of itself.

Actually, I was using that inside the house (just trimmed down to
20 ft or so). I stopped by Rat Shack to pick another one up, but
they were out. (The sales guy claimed that they don't stock it
much any more since it's seldom asked for. Probably if the store
wants it, they have to actually sell it every once in a while for
their
computer to start ordering more.) So, I dropped by Home Depot
and got 100 ft. of 14 ga. stranded copper wire and ran about
40-50 ft of it outside for the time being.

As far as lightning protection goes, the best protection is the
lead-in
out the window and screwed onto a ground rod (or a coax connector
that
is melded into the ground rod if you're usin' coax).

Here, in Central Mississippi, we have very violent storms and it's a
bad idea to keep an antenna connected for several months a year. I
use(d) a ceramic based knife switch (a BIG one) for normal use and
threw te thing out the window when the air had "that feeling".

Ouch. For a change, this year in Cincy has been pretty darn
tame for storms, but yeah, I can see doing that during the
summer. By the time I'd go inside during the summer, a lot
of the programs beamed at NA are already getting ready to
sign off anyway.

--Mike L.

"Mark S. Holden" wrote in message
...
Michael Lawson wrote:

I have a confession to make; I've always wanted an outdoor
antenna, but I was never either allowed to (when I was a kid)
or wasn't pratical do run one. Well, I now have the ability
to run one outside, but there are some questions I have about
some of the gagetry that is available these days.

Since I'm planning on running a random wire until I can figure
out a more permanent location for a trap antenna that I'll
build (assuming that I still have that old article from Pop Comm
(or was it Audio?) lying around), I'm not so concerned about
the antenna itself as some of the other goodies.

First, the coax. I noticed that Rat Shack was running a special
on their RG-58U coax for $0.11/ft, but I also know that RG-8 is
has better attenuation numbers. My run of coax is about
60-70 ft or so (at least initially, I'll probably remove some of
the built-in slack in my estimates once I'm satisfied with where
the antenna will be). Should I worry about attenuation for the
HF bands enough to use the RG-8 over the RG-58??


Personally, for receiving, I'd be more concerned about using radio
shaft
brand coax than the difference between RG-8 and rg-58.

Last I knew, their coax wasn't very well shielded.

I went poking around the net for a while trying to
find out whether it's worth it or not, but I couldn't
find anything on the quality of the cable there. At
least any real data, that is.

Second, a lightning arrestor. Are those Alpha Delta Transitraps
as good as advertised, or should I stick with a regular gas
discharge variety??


I use a polyphaser - it works well. Couldn't tell you about the
others.

Thanks for the info.

Third, has anyone run an external antenna to their Sat 800?? I'm
curious as to your setup, since it's a plastic case and the old
ground connection that I was used to on my old Icom R-70
isn't around, so I was wondering if anyone bothers to try to
ground the outer jacket of the coax. (Yeah, I know that that
ground on the R-70 was for the casing, and that this means we'll
open a can of worms here, but I figure I'd ask anyway.)

My advice is to use an impedance matching transformer, and ground
the
coax by the antenna.

I was planning on using my MFJ antenna tuner to perform the
impedance matching for the random wire, but I can see your
point of wanting to do that at the transition point. Any decent
ones around?? That MLB one seems to have people in either
love it or hate it camps.

--Mike L.

"GrtPmpkin32" wrote in message
...
Should I worry about attenuation for the
HF bands enough to use the RG-8 over the RG-58??

Without some experimentation, it would be hard to say definitively,
but I'd say
not to worry about it much. If you can get the RG8 cheaply enough,
great, but
it's stiffer and more difficult to maneuver around walls and fences,
etc. If
that's not an issue for you, use the bigger stuff, but for a Sat800
and a
listening only situation, you probably wouldn't notice the
difference.

Yeah, and considering the listening frequencies and the
length involved, I was thinking that any loss would be
negligible. I know that the cable length is the same as
that for the RG-6 that's run for my DirecTV, and by
judging the signal strength coming into the receiver, the
distance isn't hurting that signal much either.

Are those Alpha Delta Transitraps
as good as advertised, or should I stick with a regular gas
discharge variety??

USe what you can afford, but ensure a good connection to a ground
rod. The
Transitrap units do work very well, but no arrestor will do good
against a
direct strike (a handful of personal experiences notwithstanding).
The
gas-discharge types are therefore no less advantageous in my opinion
than the
Transitrap. Detach your lead-in from your radio when anything
threatens, and
the difference between the two types will be negligible.

Okay, thanks for the info. Detach or use a knife switch??
The knife switch is easier, but I'm skeptical as to whether
the few inches difference in space is enough to avoid any
issues.

We had a tree in our next door neighbor's front yard
(oh, about 40 or so feet away) get hit by lightning
back on the July 4th weekend back in 2003, and the
resulting surge took out the surge protector that our
stereo, satellite and television were attached to. Luckily,
it took out only the surge protector, but boy was that
an entertaining experience. It had been a while since
I'd seen light bulbs shine like that, and then it was because
it was hooked up to a variable power supply that someone
cranked way up.

I'm planning on running a random wire until I can figure
out a more permanent location for a trap antenna that I'll
build

Since you're using a Sat800 in a RX only circumstance, you might
wish to
consider, if space is no longer a real problem, to avoid trap
antennas and
stick with whatever length of wire you can get outside and as high
in the air
as possible. Traps can be lossy and if cheap can introduce noise
into the
system, whereas a decently erected randomwire will reduce noise if
the coax is
grounded (referring to another question, you should ground your coax
for noise
purposes at the very least. Plastic case or not, it helps reduce
noise.

If you're going to build a trap yourself, don't skimp on
the cores and wire??

For the moment, I was planning on running the random
wire around the outside of two sides of the roofed
section of the deck (no metal there; all wood construction).
I figure that it would hold me for a while, until I knew
exactly where to put a more permanent antenna, since
I'm still figuring out the landscaping for our yard.

You're using a nice radio there, and it's about as good as most
other radios in
its price range (and better than some) but it's not crucial where
antenna
experimentation is concerned. I'd say avoid traps, ground the coax
shield at
the receiver AND antenna ends, and enjoy a more noise-free set up.
MY opinion only, of course. Tinker a lot, it's a hell of a lot of
fun!
Linus

Yeah, that radio is a keeper. I was one of the lucky ones
who bought it back in 2000 in that the only problem I
had with it was the power supply, which Lextronics
replaced for free. The sound quality was good enough
and it had good enough circuitry to make my old R-70
redundant. Maybe if I get into DX-ing, I might want
to get another receiver, but right now I'm happy with
it and the DX-440 I have lying around.

--Mike L.

Michael Lawson wrote:

"Mark S. Holden" wrote in message
...
Michael Lawson wrote:

I have a confession to make; I've always wanted an outdoor
antenna, but I was never either allowed to (when I was a kid)
or wasn't pratical do run one. Well, I now have the ability
to run one outside, but there are some questions I have about
some of the gagetry that is available these days.

Since I'm planning on running a random wire until I can figure
out a more permanent location for a trap antenna that I'll
build (assuming that I still have that old article from Pop Comm
(or was it Audio?) lying around), I'm not so concerned about
the antenna itself as some of the other goodies.

First, the coax. I noticed that Rat Shack was running a special
on their RG-58U coax for $0.11/ft, but I also know that RG-8 is
has better attenuation numbers. My run of coax is about
60-70 ft or so (at least initially, I'll probably remove some of
the built-in slack in my estimates once I'm satisfied with where
the antenna will be). Should I worry about attenuation for the
HF bands enough to use the RG-8 over the RG-58??


Personally, for receiving, I'd be more concerned about using radio
shaft
brand coax than the difference between RG-8 and rg-58.

Last I knew, their coax wasn't very well shielded.

I went poking around the net for a while trying to
find out whether it's worth it or not, but I couldn't
find anything on the quality of the cable there. At
least any real data, that is.


It's years since I bought RS cable, IIRC, the shielding was loosely spiral wound instead of a full braid.

A fair number of people use RG-6 - it's 75 ohm impedance, but the losses aren't likely to be meaningful. Home improvement stores tend to sell quad shielded RG-6 at a reasonable price.

The way I see it, noise is the limiting factor - so I'll gladly trade a few db of signal strength for several db of noise reduction.

Second, a lightning arrestor. Are those Alpha Delta Transitraps
as good as advertised, or should I stick with a regular gas
discharge variety??


I use a polyphaser - it works well. Couldn't tell you about the
others.

Thanks for the info.

Third, has anyone run an external antenna to their Sat 800?? I'm
curious as to your setup, since it's a plastic case and the old
ground connection that I was used to on my old Icom R-70
isn't around, so I was wondering if anyone bothers to try to
ground the outer jacket of the coax. (Yeah, I know that that
ground on the R-70 was for the casing, and that this means we'll
open a can of worms here, but I figure I'd ask anyway.)

My advice is to use an impedance matching transformer, and ground
the
coax by the antenna.

I was planning on using my MFJ antenna tuner to perform the
impedance matching for the random wire, but I can see your
point of wanting to do that at the transition point. Any decent
ones around?? That MLB one seems to have people in either
love it or hate it camps.

--Mike L.

I wind my own impedance matching transformers. It's easy. They work well, and you don't need to twiddle knobs.

You need a few feet of magnet wire, and a #43 ferrite core. Here's a link to a site with directions:

http://www.kc7nod.20m.com/new_page_1.htm

I recently bought over 100 #43 ferrites that are a little smaller than the one in the plans, but they work fine. If you need one, contact me direct - I'll sell you one for a buck postpaid.

"Mark S. Holden" wrote in message
...
snippage

I wrote:
I went poking around the net for a while trying to
find out whether it's worth it or not, but I couldn't
find anything on the quality of the cable there. At
least any real data, that is.


Mark replied:
It's years since I bought RS cable, IIRC, the shielding
was loosely spiral wound instead of a full braid.

I dropped by and bought about 50 ft after taking a look;
it's a braid; not the tightest braid in the world, but it'll
do for the moment.

A fair number of people use RG-6 - it's 75 ohm impedance,
but the losses aren't likely to be meaningful. Home
improvement stores tend to sell quad shielded RG-6 at
a reasonable price.

The way I see it, noise is the limiting factor - so I'll gladly
trade a few db of signal strength for several db of noise
reduction.

Good point.

more snippage

I wind my own impedance matching transformers. It's easy. They
work well, and you don't need to twiddle knobs.

You need a few feet of magnet wire, and a #43 ferrite core. Here's
a link to a site with directions:

http://www.kc7nod.20m.com/new_page_1.htm

I recently bought over 100 #43 ferrites that are a little smaller
than
the one in the plans, but they work fine. If you need one, contact
me direct - I'll sell you one for a buck postpaid.

The 9:1 converter ought to work for 50 ohm cable too, with an
adjustment in number of loops, I'd imagine. Time to crack open
the books and reacquaint myself with inductance again.

Thanks for the offer; I ought to have a couple of 75-300 converters
around, so I'll see what I've got first.

--Mike L.

Michael Lawson wrote:

"Mark S. Holden" wrote in message
...
snippage

I wrote:

I went poking around the net for a while trying to
find out whether it's worth it or not, but I couldn't
find anything on the quality of the cable there. At
least any real data, that is.



Mark replied:

It's years since I bought RS cable, IIRC, the shielding
was loosely spiral wound instead of a full braid.


I dropped by and bought about 50 ft after taking a look;
it's a braid; not the tightest braid in the world, but it'll
do for the moment.


A fair number of people use RG-6 - it's 75 ohm impedance,
but the losses aren't likely to be meaningful. Home
improvement stores tend to sell quad shielded RG-6 at
a reasonable price.

The way I see it, noise is the limiting factor - so I'll gladly
trade a few db of signal strength for several db of noise
reduction.


Good point.

more snippage

I wind my own impedance matching transformers. It's easy. They
work well, and you don't need to twiddle knobs.

You need a few feet of magnet wire, and a #43 ferrite core. Here's
a link to a site with directions:

http://www.kc7nod.20m.com/new_page_1.htm

I recently bought over 100 #43 ferrites that are a little smaller

than

the one in the plans, but they work fine. If you need one, contact
me direct - I'll sell you one for a buck postpaid.


The 9:1 converter ought to work for 50 ohm cable too, with an
adjustment in number of loops, I'd imagine. Time to crack open
the books and reacquaint myself with inductance again.

Thanks for the offer; I ought to have a couple of 75-300 converters
around, so I'll see what I've got first.

--Mike L.


Good luck with it.

I bend the wire so it's next to itself for the first ten turns, so I can
wind the primary and secondary at once.

I use a hot glue gun to tack the wire down to the ferrite when I start
to wind the transformer, and as each winding ends. (3 drops total)

Until I installed my first one, I never would have believed how much of
an improvement they make.