Numbers stations : when enough DRM recivers become avalable, robust mode
would be best -- anciallary data streams avalable as well...

== FAQ ==
The DRM system uses a type of transmission called COFDM. This means that all
the data, produced from the digitally encoded audio and associated data
signals, is shared out for transmission across a large number of closely
spaced carriers. All these carriers are contained within the allotted
transmission channel. The DRM system is designed so that the number of
carriers can be varied, depending on factors such as the allotted channel
bandwidth and degree of robustness. The system is designed to work within
current 9 or 10kHz wide channels or multiples of these, should it be
possible in the future to use wider bandwidths.

The DRM system can use three different types of audio coding, depending on
the particular option chosen by the broadcaster. MPEG4 AAC audio coding is
used as a general-purpose audio coder and can provide the highest quality.
MPEG4 CELP speech coding is used for high quality speech coding where there
is no musical content and HVXC speech coding can be used to provide a very
low bit rate speech coder. In the case of AAC encoding the system can employ
a bandwidth extension tool, SBR, which allows the perceived audio bandwidth
to be increased over that which would be possible with pure AAC coding using
the same bit rate.

Because the DRM transmission system employs a multiplex to carry the
broadcast signals it is possible to carry audio signals with more than one
type of coding in the same transmission. For example, providing there was
sufficient data capacity available, it would be possible to carry a full
bandwidth AAC audio service alongside a low bit rate HVXC speech signal
carrying a news or information service.

Many transmitters currently in use today are capable of modification so that
they can carry DRM signals. This is the case with the transmitters being
used to provide DRM test transmissions at the moment. However it may not be
cost effective to modify older transmitters and so they may need to be
replaced with new DRM capable transmitters. Both the modified and the new
transmitters will retain the capability to transmit analogue AM if required.

A major factor in determining the suitability of transmitters using
non-linear modulation techniques (e.g. PDM and PSM modulators) for
modification will be that of the bandwidth of the audio modulator. In
general the modulator will need a bandwidth of at least 3 to 4 times the
bandwidth of the transmitted signal. For example a transmitter capable of
handling a 9 or 10kHz wide DRM signal will need a modulator bandwidth of 30
to 40kHz. This bandwidth is likely to be obtainable only with transmitters
having solid-state modulators. The reason for this wide bandwidth
requirement is due to the fact that the DRM signal is constructed by
applying phase modulation to the carrier synthesiser and an amplitude
component to the normal analogue audio input. The two signals pass through
the transmitter and are combined at the modulator to form the OFDM signal.
Delay compensation is applied to the amplitude signal component to
compensate for the different transition times of the two signals through the
transmitter. The lower the modulator bandwidth the less accurate will be the
combination of the two signals to form the OFDM signal.

In the case of linear transmitters a DRM signal can often be successfully
transmitted. This is achieved by applying the composite OFDM signal to the
same point at which the analogue low level signal would normally be applied.
However a high level of linearity will be required if unwanted
intermodulation products are not to be generated both within and outside the
allocated transmission channel. Some additional work may be needed to ensure
that this required level of linearity is obtained.

In some cases it may prove possible to linearise a non-linear transmitter
and then use it to transmit the composite signal as in the linear
transmitter case above. However this will generally considerably reduce the
efficiency of the transmitter.

"http://HireMe.geek.nz/" wrote in message
...
Numbers stations : when enough DRM recivers become avalable, robust mode
would be best -- anciallary data streams avalable as well...


It would be even better if they broadcast the numbers from satellites.

Frank Dresser

Frank Dresser wrote:

"http://HireMe.geek.nz/" wrote in message
...
Numbers stations : when enough DRM recivers become avalable, robust mode
would be best -- anciallary data streams avalable as well...


It would be even better if they broadcast the numbers from satellites.

Frank Dresser

That would make it too easy to identify the source.


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"starman" wrote in message
...
Frank Dresser wrote:

It would be even better if they broadcast the numbers from satellites.

Frank Dresser

That would make it too easy to identify the source.


Identify the source of the transmission? Big deal. I'm sure the exact
location of all the SW number stations are well known to all the military
and intelligence agencies plus many radio hobbyists. I remember reading a
Pop Comm article by Havana Moon who radio located one of our number stations
in Jupiter Fla.

Direction finding goes way beyond the loops and yagis radio amateurs use on
foxhunts. The 1943 edition of the Radio Engineer's handbook has a nice
rundown of the technology of instanteous direction finding using crossed
loops or adcock antennas and a vector scope. Just look at the scope screen,
and see what direction the transmission is coming from.

It's not hard to imagine that instanteanous radio location can be done now.

Locating a numbers transmission to a particular sattelite might not be
particularly useful. Let's say the Chinese put a sattelite within range of
the US. Every once in a while somebody somewhere is transmitting mystery
numbers from the satellite. Who's doing it? The Chinese might be doing it
them selves, or they might have an arrangement with somebody else. An
arrangement they won't talk about. Where's the uplink? Locating an uplink
would be far more difficult than locating a SW transmitter.

And there's so much bandwidth available, they could do the numbers on TV
like the old Seseme Street countdown.

Frank Dresser

"Frank Dresser" wrote in message
...

"starman" wrote in message
...
Frank Dresser wrote:

It would be even better if they broadcast the numbers from satellites.

Frank Dresser

That would make it too easy to identify the source.


Identify the source of the transmission? Big deal. I'm sure the exact
location of all the SW number stations are well known to all the military
and intelligence agencies plus many radio hobbyists. I remember reading a
Pop Comm article by Havana Moon who radio located one of our number
stations
in Jupiter Fla.

Don't forget the Cyprus TV show:
http://www.btinternet.com/~simon.mason/page357.htm


--
Simon Mason
Anlaby
East Yorkshire.
53°44'N 0°26'W
http://www.simonmason.karoo.net

I don't think the traditional numbers station is going to really
"advance" past this point in time. These stations apparently were very
vital during the dark days of the Cold War... but I doubt there is
still as much use for them as before.. so I don't think the
governmental organizations are willing to shove more of there
operating budgets into "DRMing" them or throwing them on satelites as
well as providing agents with specially modified sat comm rxers.

Typically numbers stations are transmit for regional purposes.. I
doubt the agents handlers will send the agent across the world and
expect him to pick up a numbers station on HF. Usually most numbers
stations are heard in Europe and seldom out of that area unless
conditions are good or if they are not based in Europe but Cuba or
elsewhere.

I believe most of the numbers stations are for agent sleeper cells.
For example, "Agent Bob" leaves his own county and goes to another
where he acts and works like a normal citizen. Then he may be
activated at any time.. by either a message transmitted in a numbers
station or another method of communications.



"Simon Mason" wrote in message ...
"Frank Dresser" wrote in message
...

"starman" wrote in message
...
Frank Dresser wrote:

It would be even better if they broadcast the numbers from satellites.

Frank Dresser

That would make it too easy to identify the source.


Identify the source of the transmission? Big deal. I'm sure the exact
location of all the SW number stations are well known to all the military
and intelligence agencies plus many radio hobbyists. I remember reading a
Pop Comm article by Havana Moon who radio located one of our number
stations
in Jupiter Fla.

Don't forget the Cyprus TV show:
http://www.btinternet.com/~simon.mason/page357.htm

"RedOctober90" wrote in message
om...
I don't think the traditional numbers station is going to really
"advance" past this point in time. These stations apparently were very
vital during the dark days of the Cold War... but I doubt there is
still as much use for them as before.. so I don't think the
governmental organizations are willing to shove more of there
operating budgets into "DRMing" them or throwing them on satelites as
well as providing agents with specially modified sat comm rxers.

Typically numbers stations are transmit for regional purposes.. I
doubt the agents handlers will send the agent across the world and
expect him to pick up a numbers station on HF. Usually most numbers
stations are heard in Europe and seldom out of that area unless
conditions are good or if they are not based in Europe but Cuba or
elsewhere.

I believe most of the numbers stations are for agent sleeper cells.
For example, "Agent Bob" leaves his own county and goes to another
where he acts and works like a normal citizen. Then he may be
activated at any time.. by either a message transmitted in a numbers
station or another method of communications.



Defense analyst Ana Montes as well as a Cuban spy ring were taking
instructions from the Cuban numbers station. Both the spy ring and Ana
Montes were active. The numbers station still works because, while the
source of the message is well known, the message and target aren't.
According to the stories, much of spycraft is still very low tech. One
advantage about low tech spying approaches is that they are intuitive and
don't require much training. Ms. Montes got tripped up by the computer she
used to decode the transmissions. She didn't know that the body of a
deleted file remains on the hard drive until overwritten.

I think broadcast coded messages one sort or another will be around for a
long time. But I don't think the Cuban numbers will go to DRM until Radio
Havana goes to DRM.

Frank Dresser

Frank Dresser wrote:
I think broadcast coded messages one sort or another will be around for a
long time. But I don't think the Cuban numbers will go to DRM until Radio
Havana goes to DRM.

DRM is sensitive to QRN, no? I'd bet mission-critical commo won't go to
DRM in most cases.

--
MORE LIBERAL CENSORSHIP!
http://chronwatch.com/content/contentDisplay.asp?aid=10467
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/10/20/123154.shtml

"clifto" wrote in message
...
Frank Dresser wrote:
I think broadcast coded messages one sort or another will be around for
a
long time. But I don't think the Cuban numbers will go to DRM until
Radio
Havana goes to DRM.

DRM is sensitive to QRN, no? I'd bet mission-critical commo won't go to
DRM in most cases.

Yeah, I think you're right. There's been some discussion here about how
sensitive DRM would be to jamming, and it seems likely that there would be a
FM like capture effect, and it wouldn't take an overwhelmingly powerful
signal to jam it. Standard AM can usually be understood even under a signal
two or three times more powerful than it.

Frank Dresser