Hi, folks - I have seen a good of info on Full Wave loops, and as I
have mentioned before, I intend to get one going here soon.

I live on a small lot, and a full wave for lower HF freqs can have a
pretty lengthy perimeter, several hundred feet - which I do not have
room without lots of wiggling and gerrymandering.

However, as I understand it, small loop antennas (like Wellbrooks,
homebrews for MW and so forth) have the loops folded on top of
themselves, allowing a lot of antenna in just a tiny fraction of the
area, with multiple small loops making up the length.

Could this be done for a horizontal full wave, maybe just a single
doubling of the loop, so that you could stick, say, 120 meters' worth
of wire on just a 60-meter perimeter? Is there any reason to believe
that this would not be a good compromise, or that any special matching
might need to be accomplished? Would the wires need to be a minimum
or constant space apart?

If there are any websites with this info, which so far I haven't been
able to find, I would appreciate some pointers toward them.

Many thanks,
Bruce Jensen

In article ,
(bpnjensen) wrote:

Hi, folks - I have seen a good of info on Full Wave loops, and as I
have mentioned before, I intend to get one going here soon.

I live on a small lot, and a full wave for lower HF freqs can have a
pretty lengthy perimeter, several hundred feet - which I do not have
room without lots of wiggling and gerrymandering.

However, as I understand it, small loop antennas (like Wellbrooks,
homebrews for MW and so forth) have the loops folded on top of
themselves, allowing a lot of antenna in just a tiny fraction of the
area, with multiple small loops making up the length.

Could this be done for a horizontal full wave, maybe just a single
doubling of the loop, so that you could stick, say, 120 meters' worth
of wire on just a 60-meter perimeter? Is there any reason to believe
that this would not be a good compromise, or that any special matching
might need to be accomplished? Would the wires need to be a minimum
or constant space apart?

If there are any websites with this info, which so far I haven't been
able to find, I would appreciate some pointers toward them.

You can have several turns of a large loop and it will work well.
Separate each turn by about 4 to 6 inches. The separation between turns
can be done at the corners of the loop with insulators. You can connect
it directly to the coax or use a 1:1 BALUN.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Telamon wrote in message ...
In article ,
(bpnjensen) wrote:

Hi, folks - I have seen a good of info on Full Wave loops, and as I
have mentioned before, I intend to get one going here soon.

I live on a small lot, and a full wave for lower HF freqs can have a
pretty lengthy perimeter, several hundred feet - which I do not have
room without lots of wiggling and gerrymandering.

However, as I understand it, small loop antennas (like Wellbrooks,
homebrews for MW and so forth) have the loops folded on top of
themselves, allowing a lot of antenna in just a tiny fraction of the
area, with multiple small loops making up the length.

Could this be done for a horizontal full wave, maybe just a single
doubling of the loop, so that you could stick, say, 120 meters' worth
of wire on just a 60-meter perimeter? Is there any reason to believe
that this would not be a good compromise, or that any special matching
might need to be accomplished? Would the wires need to be a minimum
or constant space apart?

If there are any websites with this info, which so far I haven't been
able to find, I would appreciate some pointers toward them.

You can have several turns of a large loop and it will work well.
Separate each turn by about 4 to 6 inches. The separation between turns
can be done at the corners of the loop with insulators. You can connect
it directly to the coax or use a 1:1 BALUN.

Thanks, Telamon, and to Dale Parfitt as well for a good response. I
will do some experimenting along these lines.

Bruce Jensen

= = = (bpnjensen) wrote in message
= = = . com...

Hi, folks - I have seen a good of info on Full Wave loops, and as I
have mentioned before, I intend to get one going here soon.

I live on a small lot, and a full wave for lower HF freqs can have a
pretty lengthy perimeter, several hundred feet - which I do not have
room without lots of wiggling and gerrymandering.

However, as I understand it, small loop antennas (like Wellbrooks,
homebrews for MW and so forth) have the loops folded on top of
themselves, allowing a lot of antenna in just a tiny fraction of the
area, with multiple small loops making up the length.

Could this be done for a horizontal full wave, maybe just a single
doubling of the loop, so that you could stick, say, 120 meters' worth
of wire on just a 60-meter perimeter? Is there any reason to believe
that this would not be a good compromise, or that any special matching
might need to be accomplished? Would the wires need to be a minimum
or constant space apart?

If there are any websites with this info, which so far I haven't been
able to find, I would appreciate some pointers toward them.

Many thanks,
Bruce Jensen

BJ,

When considering "Stacked" Two Turn (2X) SkyWave Loop Antennas:
[ Try this amount of 'Spacing' between the Loops. ]

160 Meter Band = Two Turns of 254.5 Feet with 62 Inch Spacing
- Only 63.6 Feet per Side with a 2X Total Length of 529 Feet.

80 Meter Band = Two Turns of 134 Feet with 31 Inch Spacing
- Only 33.5 Feet per Side with a 2X Total Length of 268 Feet.

40 Meter Band = Two Turns of 70 Feet with 17 Inch Spacing
- Only 17.5 Feet per Side with a 2X Total Length of 141 Feet.

iane ~ RHF
..

(RHF) wrote in message . com...
= = = (bpnjensen) wrote in message
= = = . com...

Hi, folks - I have seen a good of info on Full Wave loops, and as I
have mentioned before, I intend to get one going here soon.

I live on a small lot, and a full wave for lower HF freqs can have a
pretty lengthy perimeter, several hundred feet - which I do not have
room without lots of wiggling and gerrymandering.

However, as I understand it, small loop antennas (like Wellbrooks,
homebrews for MW and so forth) have the loops folded on top of
themselves, allowing a lot of antenna in just a tiny fraction of the
area, with multiple small loops making up the length.

Could this be done for a horizontal full wave, maybe just a single
doubling of the loop, so that you could stick, say, 120 meters' worth
of wire on just a 60-meter perimeter? Is there any reason to believe
that this would not be a good compromise, or that any special matching
might need to be accomplished? Would the wires need to be a minimum
or constant space apart?

If there are any websites with this info, which so far I haven't been
able to find, I would appreciate some pointers toward them.

Many thanks,
Bruce Jensen

BJ,

When considering "Stacked" Two Turn (2X) SkyWave Loop Antennas:
[ Try this amount of 'Spacing' between the Loops. ]

160 Meter Band = Two Turns of 254.5 Feet with 62 Inch Spacing
- Only 63.6 Feet per Side with a 2X Total Length of 529 Feet.

80 Meter Band = Two Turns of 134 Feet with 31 Inch Spacing
- Only 33.5 Feet per Side with a 2X Total Length of 268 Feet.

40 Meter Band = Two Turns of 70 Feet with 17 Inch Spacing
- Only 17.5 Feet per Side with a 2X Total Length of 141 Feet.

iane ~ RHF

Fascinating! It also appears, based on this series, that the
separation between turns progresses linearly with wavelength. I
assume also that this represents a minimum separation.

Thanks, RHF - Within the dimensions of my available yard (55' x 60'),
I may be able to make this work for a 90-m stacked loop. Drive the
neighbors to distrrrrraction, though!

Bruce Jensen

= = = (bpnjensen) wrote in message
= = = . com...
(RHF) wrote in message . com...
= = = (bpnjensen) wrote in message
= = = . com...

Hi, folks - I have seen a good of info on Full Wave loops, and as I
have mentioned before, I intend to get one going here soon.

I live on a small lot, and a full wave for lower HF freqs can have a
pretty lengthy perimeter, several hundred feet - which I do not have
room without lots of wiggling and gerrymandering.

However, as I understand it, small loop antennas (like Wellbrooks,
homebrews for MW and so forth) have the loops folded on top of
themselves, allowing a lot of antenna in just a tiny fraction of the
area, with multiple small loops making up the length.

Could this be done for a horizontal full wave, maybe just a single
doubling of the loop, so that you could stick, say, 120 meters' worth
of wire on just a 60-meter perimeter? Is there any reason to believe
that this would not be a good compromise, or that any special matching
might need to be accomplished? Would the wires need to be a minimum
or constant space apart?

If there are any websites with this info, which so far I haven't been
able to find, I would appreciate some pointers toward them.

Many thanks,
Bruce Jensen

BJ,

When considering "Stacked" Two Turn (2X) SkyWave Loop Antennas:
[ Try this amount of 'Spacing' between the Loops. ]

160 Meter Band = Two Turns of 254.5 Feet with 62 Inch Spacing
- Only 63.6 Feet per Side with a 2X Total Length of 529 Feet.

80 Meter Band = Two Turns of 134 Feet with 31 Inch Spacing
- Only 33.5 Feet per Side with a 2X Total Length of 268 Feet.

40 Meter Band = Two Turns of 70 Feet with 17 Inch Spacing
- Only 17.5 Feet per Side with a 2X Total Length of 141 Feet.

iane ~ RHF

Fascinating! It also appears, based on this series, that the
separation between turns progresses linearly with wavelength. I
assume also that this represents a minimum separation.

Thanks, RHF - Within the dimensions of my available yard (55' x 60'),
I may be able to make this work for a 90-m stacked loop. Drive the
neighbors to distrrrrraction, though!

Bruce Jensen

BJ,

FWIW: 'Rightly or Wrongly' I used the Formula for the
Spacing of the "T2FD Antenna" to come up with this amount
of spacing between the Turns since it seems to be Frequency
'dependent' with respect to the Lowest Operating Frequency.

The Formulas for Calculating T2FD Dimensions are as follows.
http://www.hard-core-dx.com/nordicdx.../t2design.html
#2. The spacing between radiating wires ("B") is equal
to 3000 divided by the lowest desired operating frequency
(in kHz) and then multiplied by 3.28. The answer is in feet.

Any Rebuttal ?
Or does anyone have a Formula for a 'better' "Spacing" Number ?


NOTE: If you are going to use your "Stacked" SkyWave Loop Antenna
for transmitting try connecting two NE-2 Neon Lights and ten
turns of wire. Mount it up near the top of one of your Antenna
Supports, about one foot from the Loop Antenna Wire. Have fun
'watching' the neighbors "Watching" the Demon Eyes at Night.


iane ~ RHF
..
..

In article ,
(RHF) wrote:

= = = (bpnjensen) wrote in message
= = = . com...
(RHF) wrote in message
. com...
= = = (bpnjensen) wrote in message
= = = . com...

Hi, folks - I have seen a good of info on Full Wave loops, and as I
have mentioned before, I intend to get one going here soon.

I live on a small lot, and a full wave for lower HF freqs can have a
pretty lengthy perimeter, several hundred feet - which I do not have
room without lots of wiggling and gerrymandering.

However, as I understand it, small loop antennas (like Wellbrooks,
homebrews for MW and so forth) have the loops folded on top of
themselves, allowing a lot of antenna in just a tiny fraction of the
area, with multiple small loops making up the length.

Could this be done for a horizontal full wave, maybe just a single
doubling of the loop, so that you could stick, say, 120 meters' worth
of wire on just a 60-meter perimeter? Is there any reason to believe
that this would not be a good compromise, or that any special matching
might need to be accomplished? Would the wires need to be a minimum
or constant space apart?

If there are any websites with this info, which so far I haven't been
able to find, I would appreciate some pointers toward them.

Many thanks,
Bruce Jensen

BJ,

When considering "Stacked" Two Turn (2X) SkyWave Loop Antennas:
[ Try this amount of 'Spacing' between the Loops. ]

160 Meter Band = Two Turns of 254.5 Feet with 62 Inch Spacing
- Only 63.6 Feet per Side with a 2X Total Length of 529 Feet.

80 Meter Band = Two Turns of 134 Feet with 31 Inch Spacing
- Only 33.5 Feet per Side with a 2X Total Length of 268 Feet.

40 Meter Band = Two Turns of 70 Feet with 17 Inch Spacing
- Only 17.5 Feet per Side with a 2X Total Length of 141 Feet.

iane ~ RHF

Fascinating! It also appears, based on this series, that the
separation between turns progresses linearly with wavelength. I
assume also that this represents a minimum separation.

Thanks, RHF - Within the dimensions of my available yard (55' x 60'),
I may be able to make this work for a 90-m stacked loop. Drive the
neighbors to distrrrrraction, though!

Bruce Jensen

BJ,

FWIW: 'Rightly or Wrongly' I used the Formula for the
Spacing of the "T2FD Antenna" to come up with this amount
of spacing between the Turns since it seems to be Frequency
'dependent' with respect to the Lowest Operating Frequency.

The Formulas for Calculating T2FD Dimensions are as follows.
http://www.hard-core-dx.com/nordicdx.../t2design.html
#2. The spacing between radiating wires ("B") is equal
to 3000 divided by the lowest desired operating frequency
(in kHz) and then multiplied by 3.28. The answer is in feet.

Any Rebuttal ?
Or does anyone have a Formula for a 'better' "Spacing" Number ?

There is no magic spacing number based on wavelength. You want them a
few inches apart to so the wire to wire capacitance is very small.
Spacing them farther apart will not help.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California