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  #1   Report Post  
Old January 21st 05, 05:33 PM
RHF
 
Posts: n/a
Default Questions on Inverted L antenna

K9RZZ,
..
AHaaaaa )
We have a difference of 'opinion' and a matter of perspectives ;-)
..
I would agree with you that it could be called a "Bent" Random
Wire Antenna: If the Lay of the Wire Antenna Element was in the
Horizontal Plane [Flat].
- Across-and-Out View
- - Top-Down Perspective
- - - Only Horizontal Polarized
..
However, in this instance the Lay of the Wire Antenna Element
is both in the Horizontal Plane and the Vertical Plane.
- Bottom-Up View
- - Side Perspective
- - - Both Horizontal and Vertical Polarized
..
Then Again - Going back to the 'original' 45 Foot Horizontal Wire
Antenna with a 22 Foot Vertical Ground Wire; that is fed with a
Matching Transformer. It could be 'viewed' as an Off-Center-Fed
Dipole with One Side Terminated.
..
NOW - If the 'original' 45 Foot Horizontal Wire Antenna with a
22 Foot Vertical Ground Wire is Modified with the addition of
a Vertical Down-Leg at the End of the Horizontal Wire; and still
is Fed with a Matching Transformer at the Top Near Corner.
It could be 'view' as directive array of Two Vertical Elements;
on the Far-End a Driven Vertical Element and on the Near-End
a Vertical Reflector Element.
..
for any piece of wire being used as an antenna . . .
- there are no rights or wrongs
- - its all a matter of perspective
- - - what works - works !
  #2   Report Post  
Old January 22nd 05, 09:44 AM
starman
 
Posts: n/a
Default

wrote:

So does this mean that an antenna that is configured as an Inverted L
but grounded and fed from the end of the horizontal unit will perform
significantly different, and is not in fact an "Inverted L"?


A properly installed inverted-L will have the balun near the ground at
the end of the vertical downlead wire. This allows for a short ground
wire from the balun to a grounding rod. The receiver is fed with coax
from the balun to the house.

The inverted L design seems designed to work for feeding a Rx at ground
level. I live on the third floor. Furthermore, it is often suggested
that the wire for most antennas should be away from the dwelling for
best performance. So back to my original questions, which are
essentially...


See my reply above. When you install it that way, you can run the coax
most anywhere to the receiver and still have a good RF ground to lower
the noise from domestic sources.

If I wish to install an inverted L from a third floor location, am I
better off a) with the vertical portion away from the building (at the
other end of the horizontal portion) or b) against the dwelling?


A low noise inverted-L will have the vertical downlead at the far end of
the horizontal section with the balun located at the lower end of the
single wire downlead, near the ground. Then you can run coax back to the
house from the balun. The near end of the horizontal section shouldn't
be too close to the house where it might pick up noise.

What kind of performance difference do these two options represent?


The 'low noise inverted-L' (paragraph above) can make a big difference
in lowering the noise that the antenna picks up from local sources.


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  #3   Report Post  
Old January 22nd 05, 10:42 PM
RHF
 
Posts: n/a
Default

JP,

When All Is Said and Done {Written}.
..
For the casual Shortwave Radio Listener; the Inverted "L" Antenna
is easy to visualize and conceive of building.
..
READ - The 'simple' Answer (in most cases) is the
Low Noise Inverted "L" Antenna
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortw...a/message/1785
..
When properly laid-out, arranged and constructed;
the Inverted "L" Antenna provides a relatively 'low noise'
"Omni-Directional" Shortwave Listener's (SWL) Antenna.
..
READ - The Inverted "L" Antenna - It's 'basic' Lay-Out
and Structure {Why It Works}
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortw...a/message/1969
..
For the 'non-technical' Shortwave Listener the Inverted
"L" Antenna meets the "KISAP" Test and that is good.
KISAP = Keep-It-Simple And Practical [.]

TIP - For those who do not wish to go through the process
of building their own Inverted "L" Antenna; they can buy a
pre-build Random {LongWire} Wire Antenna and configure it
as an Inverted "L" Antenna - Two come to mind:

READ - Par EF-SWL End-Fed Shortwave Antenna configured
as an Inverted "L" Antenna
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortw...a/message/1562
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortw...a/message/1711
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortw...a/message/1717

READ - High-Z Shortwave Longwire Antenna with Matching Transformer
(MLB) and SO-239 Connector
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortw...a/message/1659
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortw...a/message/1709

..
I applaud your level of technical expertise and the mastery
of the subject of Antennas. But for many casual Shortwave
Listeners; it is a burden of knowledge that they do not wish to
acquire; just to simply Listen and Enjoy their Radios a little
better.

READ - Inverted "L' Antenna Reading List
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortw...na/message/374

..
When All Is Said and Done {Written}
.. . . What Works - WORKS !
..
..
iane ~ RHF
..
All are WELCOME and "Invited to Join" the
Shortwave Listener (SWL) Antenna eGroup on YAHOO !
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
..
Some Say: On A Clear Day You Can See Forever.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortw...na/message/502
..
I BELIEVE: On A Clear Night . . .
You Can Hear Forever and Beyond, The BEYOND !
With a Shortwave Listener SWL Antenna of your own making.
"If You Build It {SWL Antenna} You Will Hear Them !"
  #4   Report Post  
Old January 22nd 05, 11:13 PM
Telamon
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article d4yId.20312$B95.14800@lakeread02,
"Jack Painter" wrote:

"starman" wrote

A low noise inverted-L will have the vertical downlead at the far end of
the horizontal section with the balun located at the lower end of the
single wire downlead, near the ground. Then you can run coax back to the
house from the balun. The near end of the horizontal section shouldn't
be too close to the house where it might pick up noise.

The 'low noise inverted-L' (paragraph above) can make a big difference
in lowering the noise that the antenna picks up from local sources.


There is not one ounce of truth to an "Inverted-L" being ANY quieter than a
45 degree random wire, and especially a horizontal-dipole, which is
generally quieter than any antenna with a vertical component. Most
interference is vertically polarized, and the verticals, random-wires,
slopers, or inverted-L antenna designs all pick up more vertically polarized
"noise" than a horizontally polarized antenna. Adding a vertical or even a
45 degree sloped component to an antenna DOES make it less directional than
a horizontal, and that is all it does. Any noise-limiting realized from
these designs comes strictly from the grounded-Balun and not the design,
configuration or dimensions of the antenna. Shield-grounding (for static and
lightning protection) at the feedpoint will achieve 99% of the
noise-limiting benefit that a grounded Balun does. The missing 1% is an
equal loss of signal and noise through the Balun. All RF noise (but not all
energy has RF components) is coupled right across the Balun windings, their
function of electrically decoupling is true of some DC energy, but not RF
energy, which is rather efficiently coupled across the Balun by design.

The same application of a grounded-Balun works equally well on both the
random (straight) wire antennas and inverted-L antenna btw. Both the random
wire and inverted-L benefit from (require in most cases) a counterpoise
ground or radials to provide effective transmitting. Neither a counterpoise
nor radials affect reception from the either the random wire or inverted-L,
however.


I agree with all that you wrote except for that last sentence.

Every location is a different situation and so generalizations can be
made about antenna type, radials or ground performance but there are no
absolutes here. What is better in one place will not necessarily be
better in another. Likely yes, but not necessarily.

Some locations may be far better off with a counterpoise of some type
rather than depending on RF ground return through the radio and mains
supply, which is all that is left if that one ground rod the BALUN is
connected to is not up to the job.

As one example if you have good ground conductivity then that one rod
might be all you need but if ground conductivity is poor then a radial
or radials will make an improvement. You can always lay wires on the
ground and see if they help. If they do then you can go through the
trouble to make them perminent.

Any type of single element antenna (unbalanced) requires a good RF
ground to be effective. The RF ground is the other half of the antenna.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California
  #5   Report Post  
Old January 22nd 05, 11:31 PM
Jack Painter
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Telamon" wrote
"Jack Painter" wrote:

"starman" wrote

A low noise inverted-L will have the vertical downlead at the far end

of
the horizontal section with the balun located at the lower end of the
single wire downlead, near the ground. Then you can run coax back to

the
house from the balun. The near end of the horizontal section shouldn't
be too close to the house where it might pick up noise.

The 'low noise inverted-L' (paragraph above) can make a big difference
in lowering the noise that the antenna picks up from local sources.


There is not one ounce of truth to an "Inverted-L" being ANY quieter

than a
45 degree random wire, and especially a horizontal-dipole, which is
generally quieter than any antenna with a vertical component. Most
interference is vertically polarized, and the verticals, random-wires,
slopers, or inverted-L antenna designs all pick up more vertically

polarized
"noise" than a horizontally polarized antenna. Adding a vertical or even

a
45 degree sloped component to an antenna DOES make it less directional

than
a horizontal, and that is all it does. Any noise-limiting realized from
these designs comes strictly from the grounded-Balun and not the design,
configuration or dimensions of the antenna. Shield-grounding (for static

and
lightning protection) at the feedpoint will achieve 99% of the
noise-limiting benefit that a grounded Balun does. The missing 1% is an
equal loss of signal and noise through the Balun. All RF noise (but not

all
energy has RF components) is coupled right across the Balun windings,

their
function of electrically decoupling is true of some DC energy, but not

RF
energy, which is rather efficiently coupled across the Balun by design.

The same application of a grounded-Balun works equally well on both the
random (straight) wire antennas and inverted-L antenna btw. Both the

random
wire and inverted-L benefit from (require in most cases) a counterpoise
ground or radials to provide effective transmitting. Neither a

counterpoise
nor radials affect reception from the either the random wire or

inverted-L,
however.


I agree with all that you wrote except for that last sentence.

Every location is a different situation and so generalizations can be
made about antenna type, radials or ground performance but there are no
absolutes here. What is better in one place will not necessarily be
better in another. Likely yes, but not necessarily.

Some locations may be far better off with a counterpoise of some type
rather than depending on RF ground return through the radio and mains
supply, which is all that is left if that one ground rod the BALUN is
connected to is not up to the job.

As one example if you have good ground conductivity then that one rod
might be all you need but if ground conductivity is poor then a radial
or radials will make an improvement. You can always lay wires on the
ground and see if they help. If they do then you can go through the
trouble to make them perminent.

Any type of single element antenna (unbalanced) requires a good RF
ground to be effective. The RF ground is the other half of the antenna.


I agree with that. While only some "incomplete" (unbalanced wire) antennas
can radiate without a good RF ground, all antennas can receive with no RF
ground at all. But some receivers can benefit from better ground than the
AC-grounded case of the radio provides. Noise limiting is one reason we do
try to improve both the DC and RF ground capabilities of the coax-shield to
improve this possibility, agreed.

Jack Painter
Virginia Beach, Virginia




  #6   Report Post  
Old January 25th 05, 05:22 AM
starman
 
Posts: n/a
Default



Jack Painter wrote:

"starman" wrote

A low noise inverted-L will have the vertical downlead at the far end of
the horizontal section with the balun located at the lower end of the
single wire downlead, near the ground. Then you can run coax back to the
house from the balun. The near end of the horizontal section shouldn't
be too close to the house where it might pick up noise.

The 'low noise inverted-L' (paragraph above) can make a big difference
in lowering the noise that the antenna picks up from local sources.


There is not one ounce of truth to an "Inverted-L" being ANY quieter than a
45 degree random wire, and especially a horizontal-dipole, which is
generally quieter than any antenna with a vertical component. Most
interference is vertically polarized, and the verticals, random-wires,
slopers, or inverted-L antenna designs all pick up more vertically polarized
"noise" than a horizontally polarized antenna. Adding a vertical or even a
45 degree sloped component to an antenna DOES make it less directional than
a horizontal, and that is all it does. Any noise-limiting realized from
these designs comes strictly from the grounded-Balun and not the design,
configuration or dimensions of the antenna. Shield-grounding (for static and
lightning protection) at the feedpoint will achieve 99% of the
noise-limiting benefit that a grounded Balun does. The missing 1% is an
equal loss of signal and noise through the Balun. All RF noise (but not all
energy has RF components) is coupled right across the Balun windings, their
function of electrically decoupling is true of some DC energy, but not RF
energy, which is rather efficiently coupled across the Balun by design.

The same application of a grounded-Balun works equally well on both the
random (straight) wire antennas and inverted-L antenna btw. Both the random
wire and inverted-L benefit from (require in most cases) a counterpoise
ground or radials to provide effective transmitting. Neither a counterpoise
nor radials affect reception from the either the random wire or inverted-L,
however.


I think you've missed the point. A so called 'low noise' inverted-L is
intended to reduce noise on the feed line to the receiver which comes
from domestic sources like appliances in the home. This is not the same
as the noise being received by the antenna wire itself. When the feed
line is part of the vertical section of the antenna, like the typical
inverted-L or random wire, it can pick up noise from the domestic
environment. The solution is to use a coax feed line which connects to a
balun near the ground. The vertical section of the antenna comes down to
the balun. This allows for a short RF ground from the coax shield to
earth which decouples the noise on the shield.
  #7   Report Post  
Old January 26th 05, 06:08 AM
Jack Painter
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"starman" wrote
Jack Painter wrote:

"starman" wrote

A low noise inverted-L will have the vertical downlead at the far end

of
the horizontal section with the balun located at the lower end of the
single wire downlead, near the ground. Then you can run coax back to

the
house from the balun. The near end of the horizontal section shouldn't
be too close to the house where it might pick up noise.

The 'low noise inverted-L' (paragraph above) can make a big difference
in lowering the noise that the antenna picks up from local sources.


There is not one ounce of truth to an "Inverted-L" being ANY quieter

than a
45 degree random wire, and especially a horizontal-dipole, which is
generally quieter than any antenna with a vertical component. Most
interference is vertically polarized, and the verticals, random-wires,
slopers, or inverted-L antenna designs all pick up more vertically

polarized
"noise" than a horizontally polarized antenna. Adding a vertical or even

a
45 degree sloped component to an antenna DOES make it less directional

than
a horizontal, and that is all it does. Any noise-limiting realized from
these designs comes strictly from the grounded-Balun and not the design,
configuration or dimensions of the antenna. Shield-grounding (for static

and
lightning protection) at the feedpoint will achieve 99% of the
noise-limiting benefit that a grounded Balun does. The missing 1% is an
equal loss of signal and noise through the Balun. All RF noise (but not

all
energy has RF components) is coupled right across the Balun windings,

their
function of electrically decoupling is true of some DC energy, but not

RF
energy, which is rather efficiently coupled across the Balun by design.

The same application of a grounded-Balun works equally well on both the
random (straight) wire antennas and inverted-L antenna btw. Both the

random
wire and inverted-L benefit from (require in most cases) a counterpoise
ground or radials to provide effective transmitting. Neither a

counterpoise
nor radials affect reception from the either the random wire or

inverted-L,
however.


I think you've missed the point. A so called 'low noise' inverted-L is
intended to reduce noise on the feed line to the receiver which comes
from domestic sources like appliances in the home. This is not the same
as the noise being received by the antenna wire itself. When the feed
line is part of the vertical section of the antenna, like the typical
inverted-L or random wire, it can pick up noise from the domestic
environment. The solution is to use a coax feed line which connects to a
balun near the ground. The vertical section of the antenna comes down to
the balun. This allows for a short RF ground from the coax shield to
earth which decouples the noise on the shield.


Well I didn't mean to miss the point, and I'm afraid you're far off base in
suggesting that an inverted-L radiates part of the feedline or that feedline
(coax-shield) noise has anything to do with an antenna configuration. The
use of coax minimizes feedline noise, and shield-grounding the coax further
reduces noise from either being brought into the shack or carried to the
antenna from the shack. In an inverted-L, either a Balun or a choke is
always used to prevent inadvertent feedline radiation. The vertical portion
of the end-fed inverted-L is where the feedline ends and the antenna begins.

The real noise-limiting design of any beverage-style or inverted-L wire
antenna is to ground one half of the Balun output. This is whether the coax
shield is grounded earlier or not. That does affect signals picked up on the
antenna wire itself, although experts are not agreed as to whether there is
a measurable improvement in signal to noise ratio as a result of this. As
Telemon mentioned, having a counterpoise or good RF ground could make a
difference there. In my particular case, there is a marked improvement in
signal strength and possibly some reduction in noise when the connection
from ground rod to Balun is made. I also transmit through this antenna with
pretty good results. The original concept of grounding one-half of a
current-type wire-fed Balun for noise limiting came from an 1980's issue of
Fine Tuning's PROCEEDINGS. I was borrowing the issue from a friend and
cannot remember the original author of this but I don't believe it was the
venerable John Doty to which it is lately accredited.

Jack Painter
Virginia Beach, Virginia


  #8   Report Post  
Old January 26th 05, 09:44 AM
starman
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Jack Painter wrote:

"starman" wrote
Jack Painter wrote:

"starman" wrote

A low noise inverted-L will have the vertical downlead at the far end

of
the horizontal section with the balun located at the lower end of the
single wire downlead, near the ground. Then you can run coax back to

the
house from the balun. The near end of the horizontal section shouldn't
be too close to the house where it might pick up noise.

The 'low noise inverted-L' (paragraph above) can make a big difference
in lowering the noise that the antenna picks up from local sources.


There is not one ounce of truth to an "Inverted-L" being ANY quieter

than a
45 degree random wire, and especially a horizontal-dipole, which is
generally quieter than any antenna with a vertical component. Most
interference is vertically polarized, and the verticals, random-wires,
slopers, or inverted-L antenna designs all pick up more vertically

polarized
"noise" than a horizontally polarized antenna. Adding a vertical or even

a
45 degree sloped component to an antenna DOES make it less directional

than
a horizontal, and that is all it does. Any noise-limiting realized from
these designs comes strictly from the grounded-Balun and not the design,
configuration or dimensions of the antenna. Shield-grounding (for static

and
lightning protection) at the feedpoint will achieve 99% of the
noise-limiting benefit that a grounded Balun does. The missing 1% is an
equal loss of signal and noise through the Balun. All RF noise (but not

all
energy has RF components) is coupled right across the Balun windings,

their
function of electrically decoupling is true of some DC energy, but not

RF
energy, which is rather efficiently coupled across the Balun by design.

The same application of a grounded-Balun works equally well on both the
random (straight) wire antennas and inverted-L antenna btw. Both the

random
wire and inverted-L benefit from (require in most cases) a counterpoise
ground or radials to provide effective transmitting. Neither a

counterpoise
nor radials affect reception from the either the random wire or

inverted-L,
however.


I think you've missed the point. A so called 'low noise' inverted-L is
intended to reduce noise on the feed line to the receiver which comes
from domestic sources like appliances in the home. This is not the same
as the noise being received by the antenna wire itself. When the feed
line is part of the vertical section of the antenna, like the typical
inverted-L or random wire, it can pick up noise from the domestic
environment. The solution is to use a coax feed line which connects to a
balun near the ground. The vertical section of the antenna comes down to
the balun. This allows for a short RF ground from the coax shield to
earth which decouples the noise on the shield.


Well I didn't mean to miss the point, and I'm afraid you're far off base in
suggesting that an inverted-L radiates part of the feedline or that feedline
(coax-shield) noise has anything to do with an antenna configuration. The
use of coax minimizes feedline noise, and shield-grounding the coax further
reduces noise from either being brought into the shack or carried to the
antenna from the shack. In an inverted-L, either a Balun or a choke is
always used to prevent inadvertent feedline radiation. The vertical portion
of the end-fed inverted-L is where the feedline ends and the antenna begins.

The real noise-limiting design of any beverage-style or inverted-L wire
antenna is to ground one half of the Balun output. This is whether the coax
shield is grounded earlier or not. That does affect signals picked up on the
antenna wire itself, although experts are not agreed as to whether there is
a measurable improvement in signal to noise ratio as a result of this. As
Telemon mentioned, having a counterpoise or good RF ground could make a
difference there. In my particular case, there is a marked improvement in
signal strength and possibly some reduction in noise when the connection
from ground rod to Balun is made. I also transmit through this antenna with
pretty good results. The original concept of grounding one-half of a
current-type wire-fed Balun for noise limiting came from an 1980's issue of
Fine Tuning's PROCEEDINGS. I was borrowing the issue from a friend and
cannot remember the original author of this but I don't believe it was the
venerable John Doty to which it is lately accredited.


If the coax shield of an inverted-L does not have a good RF ground,
which requires a short ground wire to earth, the domestic noise on the
shield can couple to the center conductor of the coax where it connects
to the antenna. The noise will then become part of the antenna signal to
the radio. That's the point I think you missed.
  #9   Report Post  
Old January 26th 05, 06:51 PM
Jack Painter
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"starman" wrote
Jack Painter wrote:

"starman" wrote
Jack Painter wrote:

"starman" wrote

A low noise inverted-L will have the vertical downlead at the far

end
of
the horizontal section with the balun located at the lower end of

the
single wire downlead, near the ground. Then you can run coax back

to
the
house from the balun. The near end of the horizontal section

shouldn't
be too close to the house where it might pick up noise.

The 'low noise inverted-L' (paragraph above) can make a big

difference
in lowering the noise that the antenna picks up from local

sources.


There is not one ounce of truth to an "Inverted-L" being ANY quieter

than a
45 degree random wire, and especially a horizontal-dipole, which is
generally quieter than any antenna with a vertical component. Most
interference is vertically polarized, and the verticals,

random-wires,
slopers, or inverted-L antenna designs all pick up more vertically

polarized
"noise" than a horizontally polarized antenna. Adding a vertical or

even
a
45 degree sloped component to an antenna DOES make it less

directional
than
a horizontal, and that is all it does. Any noise-limiting realized

from
these designs comes strictly from the grounded-Balun and not the

design,
configuration or dimensions of the antenna. Shield-grounding (for

static
and
lightning protection) at the feedpoint will achieve 99% of the
noise-limiting benefit that a grounded Balun does. The missing 1% is

an
equal loss of signal and noise through the Balun. All RF noise (but

not
all
energy has RF components) is coupled right across the Balun

windings,
their
function of electrically decoupling is true of some DC energy, but

not
RF
energy, which is rather efficiently coupled across the Balun by

design.

The same application of a grounded-Balun works equally well on both

the
random (straight) wire antennas and inverted-L antenna btw. Both

the
random
wire and inverted-L benefit from (require in most cases) a

counterpoise
ground or radials to provide effective transmitting. Neither a

counterpoise
nor radials affect reception from the either the random wire or

inverted-L,
however.

I think you've missed the point. A so called 'low noise' inverted-L is
intended to reduce noise on the feed line to the receiver which comes
from domestic sources like appliances in the home. This is not the

same
as the noise being received by the antenna wire itself. When the feed
line is part of the vertical section of the antenna, like the typical
inverted-L or random wire, it can pick up noise from the domestic
environment. The solution is to use a coax feed line which connects to

a
balun near the ground. The vertical section of the antenna comes down

to
the balun. This allows for a short RF ground from the coax shield to
earth which decouples the noise on the shield.


Well I didn't mean to miss the point, and I'm afraid you're far off base

in
suggesting that an inverted-L radiates part of the feedline or that

feedline
(coax-shield) noise has anything to do with an antenna configuration.

The
use of coax minimizes feedline noise, and shield-grounding the coax

further
reduces noise from either being brought into the shack or carried to the
antenna from the shack. In an inverted-L, either a Balun or a choke is
always used to prevent inadvertent feedline radiation. The vertical

portion
of the end-fed inverted-L is where the feedline ends and the antenna

begins.

The real noise-limiting design of any beverage-style or inverted-L wire
antenna is to ground one half of the Balun output. This is whether the

coax
shield is grounded earlier or not. That does affect signals picked up on

the
antenna wire itself, although experts are not agreed as to whether there

is
a measurable improvement in signal to noise ratio as a result of this.

As
Telemon mentioned, having a counterpoise or good RF ground could make a
difference there. In my particular case, there is a marked improvement

in
signal strength and possibly some reduction in noise when the connection
from ground rod to Balun is made. I also transmit through this antenna

with
pretty good results. The original concept of grounding one-half of a
current-type wire-fed Balun for noise limiting came from an 1980's issue

of
Fine Tuning's PROCEEDINGS. I was borrowing the issue from a friend and
cannot remember the original author of this but I don't believe it was

the
venerable John Doty to which it is lately accredited.


If the coax shield of an inverted-L does not have a good RF ground,
which requires a short ground wire to earth, the domestic noise on the
shield can couple to the center conductor of the coax where it connects
to the antenna. The noise will then become part of the antenna signal to
the radio. That's the point I think you missed.


OK I didn't restate the obvious, agreed.

The best place to terminate the antenna and mount the Balun is *at* the
ground rod, which means the connection is about 4 inches long. Ty-wrap the
Balun to the protruding ground rod. After applying coax-seal to the
wire-wrapped and then soldered connections, cut the bottom and slit one side
of a plastic beverage bottle to just fit over the Balun and tape the bottle
shut afterwards. Spray paint the bottle with bow-flex cammo and it becomes
part of the background, and weather-proofed for years of service. Some
designs advise terminating the vertical drop of the inverted-L about 6 feet
above ground. That's more important for a center fed or off-center fed
(dipole type) antenna than the end-fed wires. Users should have no problems
terminating the inverted-L at ground level, and sink a good ground rod (with
buried radials if you desire) at that same point.

Jack Painter
Virginia Beach, Virginia


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Old January 27th 05, 02:41 AM
starman
 
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Jack Painter wrote:

"starman" wrote
Jack Painter wrote:

"starman" wrote
Jack Painter wrote:

"starman" wrote

A low noise inverted-L will have the vertical downlead at the far

end
of
the horizontal section with the balun located at the lower end of

the
single wire downlead, near the ground. Then you can run coax back

to
the
house from the balun. The near end of the horizontal section

shouldn't
be too close to the house where it might pick up noise.

The 'low noise inverted-L' (paragraph above) can make a big

difference
in lowering the noise that the antenna picks up from local

sources.


There is not one ounce of truth to an "Inverted-L" being ANY quieter
than a
45 degree random wire, and especially a horizontal-dipole, which is
generally quieter than any antenna with a vertical component. Most
interference is vertically polarized, and the verticals,

random-wires,
slopers, or inverted-L antenna designs all pick up more vertically
polarized
"noise" than a horizontally polarized antenna. Adding a vertical or

even
a
45 degree sloped component to an antenna DOES make it less

directional
than
a horizontal, and that is all it does. Any noise-limiting realized

from
these designs comes strictly from the grounded-Balun and not the

design,
configuration or dimensions of the antenna. Shield-grounding (for

static
and
lightning protection) at the feedpoint will achieve 99% of the
noise-limiting benefit that a grounded Balun does. The missing 1% is

an
equal loss of signal and noise through the Balun. All RF noise (but

not
all
energy has RF components) is coupled right across the Balun

windings,
their
function of electrically decoupling is true of some DC energy, but

not
RF
energy, which is rather efficiently coupled across the Balun by

design.

The same application of a grounded-Balun works equally well on both

the
random (straight) wire antennas and inverted-L antenna btw. Both

the
random
wire and inverted-L benefit from (require in most cases) a

counterpoise
ground or radials to provide effective transmitting. Neither a
counterpoise
nor radials affect reception from the either the random wire or
inverted-L,
however.

I think you've missed the point. A so called 'low noise' inverted-L is
intended to reduce noise on the feed line to the receiver which comes
from domestic sources like appliances in the home. This is not the

same
as the noise being received by the antenna wire itself. When the feed
line is part of the vertical section of the antenna, like the typical
inverted-L or random wire, it can pick up noise from the domestic
environment. The solution is to use a coax feed line which connects to

a
balun near the ground. The vertical section of the antenna comes down

to
the balun. This allows for a short RF ground from the coax shield to
earth which decouples the noise on the shield.

Well I didn't mean to miss the point, and I'm afraid you're far off base

in
suggesting that an inverted-L radiates part of the feedline or that

feedline
(coax-shield) noise has anything to do with an antenna configuration.

The
use of coax minimizes feedline noise, and shield-grounding the coax

further
reduces noise from either being brought into the shack or carried to the
antenna from the shack. In an inverted-L, either a Balun or a choke is
always used to prevent inadvertent feedline radiation. The vertical

portion
of the end-fed inverted-L is where the feedline ends and the antenna

begins.

The real noise-limiting design of any beverage-style or inverted-L wire
antenna is to ground one half of the Balun output. This is whether the

coax
shield is grounded earlier or not. That does affect signals picked up on

the
antenna wire itself, although experts are not agreed as to whether there

is
a measurable improvement in signal to noise ratio as a result of this.

As
Telemon mentioned, having a counterpoise or good RF ground could make a
difference there. In my particular case, there is a marked improvement

in
signal strength and possibly some reduction in noise when the connection
from ground rod to Balun is made. I also transmit through this antenna

with
pretty good results. The original concept of grounding one-half of a
current-type wire-fed Balun for noise limiting came from an 1980's issue

of
Fine Tuning's PROCEEDINGS. I was borrowing the issue from a friend and
cannot remember the original author of this but I don't believe it was

the
venerable John Doty to which it is lately accredited.


If the coax shield of an inverted-L does not have a good RF ground,
which requires a short ground wire to earth, the domestic noise on the
shield can couple to the center conductor of the coax where it connects
to the antenna. The noise will then become part of the antenna signal to
the radio. That's the point I think you missed.


OK I didn't restate the obvious, agreed.

The best place to terminate the antenna and mount the Balun is *at* the
ground rod, which means the connection is about 4 inches long. Ty-wrap the
Balun to the protruding ground rod. After applying coax-seal to the
wire-wrapped and then soldered connections, cut the bottom and slit one side
of a plastic beverage bottle to just fit over the Balun and tape the bottle
shut afterwards. Spray paint the bottle with bow-flex cammo and it becomes
part of the background, and weather-proofed for years of service. Some
designs advise terminating the vertical drop of the inverted-L about 6 feet
above ground. That's more important for a center fed or off-center fed
(dipole type) antenna than the end-fed wires. Users should have no problems
terminating the inverted-L at ground level, and sink a good ground rod (with
buried radials if you desire) at that same point.


I mounted my balun in a plastic electrical junction box with a cover
gasket, the kind used with plastic conduit. The ground wire to the rod
is about 2-feet long.
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