Hi,

Can Joe or anyone else explain to me a few things; I am
trying to set up a antenna on the roof as reception is
really bad using the indoor whip (lots of interference
I live next door to a restaurant ventilator farm and I
think that may be a problem). Anyway I am thinking of
getting a length of wire and just laying it on top of the
roof under a couple of bricks to stop it getting blown
around. The thing I don't get is the connection down
the side of the house - I need to use a different cable yes?

I have heard people specify a length of "radio coax" is
suitable but I do not understand how this could be any
use without the shielding being grounded - could someone
explain?

My roberts R861 has a minijack anntena input - which has
2 connections on the plug - are they both used or is
only one? If I use a thick cable to run into the house
would I need any special attention to connect that to
the minijack?

What sort of length wire should I use on the roof, is
it just a case of the longer the better?

Thanks in advance for any advice

bestwishes
laura


I habe never owned a Sangean ATS 909 nor do I know anyone who does.
According to PASSPORT TO WORLD BAND RADIO, the Sangean/Roberts works
BEST off its AC adapter as it "eats" batteries. An external antenna is
necessary also, as it lacks sensitivity with its whip (according to
them).

A long wire, or loop antenna, mounted on your roof would be ideal. Try
buying a length of insulated wire, two ceramic or equivalent stand-off
insulators (to isolate the antenna from whatever support you use) and
some lead-in wire; attach the appropriate plug to the lead-in to attach
to the radio and you're in business. No separate ground is necessary,
but make sure you DISCONNECT the antenna whenever the radio is not in
use and, especially, during local thunderstorms. (NEVER use ANY
electronic appliance during a thunderstorm; storms only last a
half-hour or so.)

Do NOT let your antenna proper or the lead-in touch anything metallic;
that will degrade the signal.


--
echo |sed 's/\(.\)\(.\)/\2\1/g'

Hi Laura,
You have the right idea S. The antenna should be a couple feet above the
surface, and connected to supports at either end by nylon cord or something
else non conductive. You can connect the antenna to the center conductor of
some coaxial cable and run it into the house and connect it to a connector
that matches a connection point on the backof your radio. I would connect
the wire from the antenna at the end of the wire closest to where you want
to connect the coax.

The ventilation units you mention have electric motors in them, and that may
be the reason for the interference. If possible, route your antenna wire in
a direction away from the location of those ventilators that is not
broadside to them. That might help a bit.

Best wishes for your success. I'd be glad to see a post of what you have
heard mm


PEACE + We are the Providence of God
"laura fairhead" wrote in
message ...
Hi,

Can Joe or anyone else explain to me a few things; I am
trying to set up a antenna on the roof as reception is
really bad using the indoor whip (lots of interference
I live next door to a restaurant ventilator farm and I
think that may be a problem). Anyway I am thinking of
getting a length of wire and just laying it on top of the
roof under a couple of bricks to stop it getting blown
around. The thing I don't get is the connection down
the side of the house - I need to use a different cable yes?

I have heard people specify a length of "radio coax" is
suitable but I do not understand how this could be any
use without the shielding being grounded - could someone
explain?

My roberts R861 has a minijack anntena input - which has
2 connections on the plug - are they both used or is
only one? If I use a thick cable to run into the house
would I need any special attention to connect that to
the minijack?

What sort of length wire should I use on the roof, is
it just a case of the longer the better?

Thanks in advance for any advice

bestwishes
laura


I habe never owned a Sangean ATS 909 nor do I know anyone who does.
According to PASSPORT TO WORLD BAND RADIO, the Sangean/Roberts works
BEST off its AC adapter as it "eats" batteries. An external antenna is
necessary also, as it lacks sensitivity with its whip (according to
them).

A long wire, or loop antenna, mounted on your roof would be ideal. Try
buying a length of insulated wire, two ceramic or equivalent stand-off
insulators (to isolate the antenna from whatever support you use) and
some lead-in wire; attach the appropriate plug to the lead-in to attach
to the radio and you're in business. No separate ground is necessary,
but make sure you DISCONNECT the antenna whenever the radio is not in
use and, especially, during local thunderstorms. (NEVER use ANY
electronic appliance during a thunderstorm; storms only last a
half-hour or so.)

Do NOT let your antenna proper or the lead-in touch anything metallic;
that will degrade the signal.


--
echo |sed 's/\(.\)\(.\)/\2\1/g'

Walk around outside with the whip extended and see how the interference and
noise is. If it is much less, but you're still close to the fan farm, then
you may be dealing with interference inside your home.

The best approach, if you have the right property size, is to run a wire as
far away from the restaurant and your house as possible (on top of a wooden
fence works), and use a balun (you can use a TV matching transformer for
now) and feed it into your house with coax. For your application, outdoor
TV 75 ohm coax will do, and you can get an adapter for the end to go to the
mini-plug. Radio shack sells everything you need. Don't forget to ground
the shield with a ground rod.

Hello Laura,

The idea of walking around your area (and the roof) with your radio in
hand to see if interference is greater or lesser at various locations
is sound. See if you can find a place which is relatively noise-free.
I'm afraid a length of wire just lain on the roof will probably be
unsatisfactory; it should be raised much higher and must not touch
anything. It should be attached to ceramic (or similar) insulators and
those insulators affixed to supports, with suitable strain-relief. You
can use coaxial cable (RG-6 or RG-8) as a lead-in, or you can even try
a twin-lead (300 Ohm) wire and terminate that in a 3.5 mm plug. If you
do use coax, I have found that Radio Shack does indeed sell adapters
for attaching it to your radio. I have used a BNC connector at the end
of coax, then a BNC to RCA adapter, and finally an RCA to 3.5 mm plug
adapter to connect an outdoor antenna to a portable radio (I did this
years ago when I was able to have an outdoor antenna; it worked just
fine.) I have done something similar to allow my Wellbrook antenna to
be used with my Sony ICF-SW7600GR.

If, however, you find that in your location there is nowhere without
electrical noise, you've got problems.

Are those restaurant ventilators ever turned off, perhaps in the middle
of the night? If you try your radio then and find no interference,
you've found its source.

If those machines are indeed the cause of your interference, the only
type of antenna which can overcome that (to a greater or lesser extent)
is a balanced loop design, such as the Wellbrook, and, as you know,
they are expensive (but well-worth the money if you can afford them).
What you'll spend or do depends just how serious you are about short
wave listening.

If you find that placing your radio (using its whip) near a window on
the side of your house farthest away from the ventilators results in
lower noise levels, you might try an AOR WL500 Window Loop Antenna
which can be mounted in that window. It is a loop of unbalanced design,
according to PASSPORT, but may help reduce some local electrical noise.
In my case, I tried it before I bought the Wellbrook ALA 330S and found
it to be a great help in my location, better than any other antenna I
had previously tried (I still use it with my Satellit 800), and it is a
great match for a portable radio (the Sony AN-LP1 is also a good
antenna for portables, but, in my experience, does not reduce local
electrical noise at all). It terminates in a BNC so the Radio Shack
adapters I mentioned above will easily adapt that antenna to your
radio. It may be worth a try though it, too, is expensive and, frankly,
is no match for the Wellbrook. If the WL500 works fairly well, then the
Wellbrook will work very well.

I hope that is of some help to you. Some of the other posts here also
have good ideas. Antennas are "scientifically" designed. But "science"
is no good at all when it comes to determining what will work at a
specific location. Only trial and error will tell you that.

All the best,

Joe

laura fairhead wrote:
Hi,

Can Joe or anyone else explain to me a few things; I am
trying to set up a antenna on the roof as reception is
really bad using the indoor whip (lots of interference
I live next door to a restaurant ventilator farm and I
think that may be a problem). Anyway I am thinking of
getting a length of wire and just laying it on top of the
roof under a couple of bricks to stop it getting blown
around. The thing I don't get is the connection down
the side of the house - I need to use a different cable yes?

I have heard people specify a length of "radio coax" is
suitable but I do not understand how this could be any
use without the shielding being grounded - could someone
explain?

My roberts R861 has a minijack anntena input - which has
2 connections on the plug - are they both used or is
only one? If I use a thick cable to run into the house
would I need any special attention to connect that to
the minijack?

What sort of length wire should I use on the roof, is
it just a case of the longer the better?

Thanks in advance for any advice

bestwishes
laura


I have never owned a Sangean ATS 909 nor do I know anyone who does.
According to PASSPORT TO WORLD BAND RADIO, the Sangean/Roberts works
BEST off its AC adapter as it "eats" batteries. An external antenna
is
necessary also, as it lacks sensitivity with its whip (according to
them).

A long wire, or loop antenna, mounted on your roof would be ideal.
Try
buying a length of insulated wire, two ceramic or equivalent
stand-off
insulators (to isolate the antenna from whatever support you use)
and
some lead-in wire; attach the appropriate plug to the lead-in to
attach
to the radio and you're in business. No separate ground is
necessary,
but make sure you DISCONNECT the antenna whenever the radio is not
in
use and, especially, during local thunderstorms. (NEVER use ANY
electronic appliance during a thunderstorm; storms only last a
half-hour or so.)

Do NOT let your antenna proper or the lead-in touch anything
metallic;
that will degrade the signal.


--
echo |sed 's/\(.\)\(.\)/\2\1/g'

First, my thanks to Laura for asking a question that guys probably wouldn't
ask anymore than we would ask directions if lost. In both cases we seem to
be satisfied with wandering around.

Also, once again thanks to Joe for a somewhat complete answer to Laura's
question. (I'd love to get Joe over here for a long conversation and just
pick his brain for a few hours.) But I would like an even more complete
answer. Joe and others seem to feel that you can't just lay a wire on your
roof and hold it down somehow and still get better reception that you get
with the whip indoors. I'm thinking you aren't satisfied with that answer.
If you are, I apologize. I'm not satisfied.

I've heard all kinds of people suggest that you can tack a wire to the fence
in your backyard and run a wire to your radio and get decent reception or
maybe just better reception. "Better reception than what?", you ask? Good
point. I guess I don't recall what the alternative was for sure, but I think
it was one of us neophytes trying to get away from the whip again. And I
haven't heard it just once; I've heard it many times. Did they not actually
mean tack it to the fence? Did they really mean use stand-offs and attach it
to the fence. I don't think so, because most asking the question were trying
to find a way to hide the antenna from the neighbors or the homeowners
association.

I've heard others say they live out in the boonies and have laid 1000 feet
of long wire on the ground and obtained terrific reception. (I suppose a
thousand feet of any kind of wire is bound to receive something!) This seems
very much like laying a wire on the roof of one's house with one major
difference: out there in the boonies you would have less interference from
the junk most of us have in our homes and those next door to us.

Finally, I assume Laura was talking about laying insulated wire on her roof
to improve reception. I'm not sure that bare wire would be a no-no (heck,
I'm new to this stuff, too), but I've heard the type of wire doesn't really
make that much difference (within reason). I suspect this large roll of #14
solid, insulated wire used to wire homes will work just as well as most and
better than some.

Then we have that connection thing. The guys who have been into this hobby
for a while assume we all know how and where to connect the downlead to the
main antenna wire. My head spins with all of the detail, but its kind of fun
searching for answers .... especially when you have a bunch of people who
you can drag them out of.

All I'm sure of is that the Wellbrook is in my future.

Harlan

"Joe Analssandrini" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello Laura,

The idea of walking around your area (and the roof) with your radio in
hand to see if interference is greater or lesser at various locations
is sound. See if you can find a place which is relatively noise-free.
I'm afraid a length of wire just lain on the roof will probably be
unsatisfactory; it should be raised much higher and must not touch
anything. It should be attached to ceramic (or similar) insulators and
those insulators affixed to supports, with suitable strain-relief. You
can use coaxial cable (RG-6 or RG-8) as a lead-in, or you can even try
a twin-lead (300 Ohm) wire and terminate that in a 3.5 mm plug. If you
do use coax, I have found that Radio Shack does indeed sell adapters
for attaching it to your radio. I have used a BNC connector at the end
of coax, then a BNC to RCA adapter, and finally an RCA to 3.5 mm plug
adapter to connect an outdoor antenna to a portable radio (I did this
years ago when I was able to have an outdoor antenna; it worked just
fine.) I have done something similar to allow my Wellbrook antenna to
be used with my Sony ICF-SW7600GR.

If, however, you find that in your location there is nowhere without
electrical noise, you've got problems.

Are those restaurant ventilators ever turned off, perhaps in the middle
of the night? If you try your radio then and find no interference,
you've found its source.

If those machines are indeed the cause of your interference, the only
type of antenna which can overcome that (to a greater or lesser extent)
is a balanced loop design, such as the Wellbrook, and, as you know,
they are expensive (but well-worth the money if you can afford them).
What you'll spend or do depends just how serious you are about short
wave listening.

If you find that placing your radio (using its whip) near a window on
the side of your house farthest away from the ventilators results in
lower noise levels, you might try an AOR WL500 Window Loop Antenna
which can be mounted in that window. It is a loop of unbalanced design,
according to PASSPORT, but may help reduce some local electrical noise.
In my case, I tried it before I bought the Wellbrook ALA 330S and found
it to be a great help in my location, better than any other antenna I
had previously tried (I still use it with my Satellit 800), and it is a
great match for a portable radio (the Sony AN-LP1 is also a good
antenna for portables, but, in my experience, does not reduce local
electrical noise at all). It terminates in a BNC so the Radio Shack
adapters I mentioned above will easily adapt that antenna to your
radio. It may be worth a try though it, too, is expensive and, frankly,
is no match for the Wellbrook. If the WL500 works fairly well, then the
Wellbrook will work very well.

I hope that is of some help to you. Some of the other posts here also
have good ideas. Antennas are "scientifically" designed. But "science"
is no good at all when it comes to determining what will work at a
specific location. Only trial and error will tell you that.

All the best,

Joe

laura fairhead wrote:
Hi,

Can Joe or anyone else explain to me a few things; I am
trying to set up a antenna on the roof as reception is
really bad using the indoor whip (lots of interference
I live next door to a restaurant ventilator farm and I
think that may be a problem). Anyway I am thinking of
getting a length of wire and just laying it on top of the
roof under a couple of bricks to stop it getting blown
around. The thing I don't get is the connection down
the side of the house - I need to use a different cable yes?

I have heard people specify a length of "radio coax" is
suitable but I do not understand how this could be any
use without the shielding being grounded - could someone
explain?

My roberts R861 has a minijack anntena input - which has
2 connections on the plug - are they both used or is
only one? If I use a thick cable to run into the house
would I need any special attention to connect that to
the minijack?

What sort of length wire should I use on the roof, is
it just a case of the longer the better?

Thanks in advance for any advice

bestwishes
laura


I have never owned a Sangean ATS 909 nor do I know anyone who does.
According to PASSPORT TO WORLD BAND RADIO, the Sangean/Roberts works
BEST off its AC adapter as it "eats" batteries. An external antenna
is
necessary also, as it lacks sensitivity with its whip (according to
them).

A long wire, or loop antenna, mounted on your roof would be ideal.
Try
buying a length of insulated wire, two ceramic or equivalent
stand-off
insulators (to isolate the antenna from whatever support you use)
and
some lead-in wire; attach the appropriate plug to the lead-in to
attach
to the radio and you're in business. No separate ground is
necessary,
but make sure you DISCONNECT the antenna whenever the radio is not
in
use and, especially, during local thunderstorms. (NEVER use ANY
electronic appliance during a thunderstorm; storms only last a
half-hour or so.)

Do NOT let your antenna proper or the lead-in touch anything
metallic;
that will degrade the signal.


--
echo |sed 's/\(.\)\(.\)/\2\1/g'

Dear Harlan and Laura,

You are correct in stating that we "old-timers" tend to assume that
newcomers to the hobby know all the "basics" we know. That, as you
state, is not the case.

Antennas are the MOST important item in your radio arsenal yet are the
LEAST quantifiable; in other words, a great antenna at one location may
turn out to be a "dud" at another. Even moving an antenna a FEW FEET(!)
in either direction may make a great difference in reception.

How are you going to accomplish what you want? As I stated above, only
"trial-and-error" will do. That, as you can surmise, can be a real pain
in the neck (sometimes literally!).

All anyone can do is research the various antennas which might be
suitable for your particular location and requirements and then try one
or more. Obviously, if one has restrictive covenants, an outdoor
long-wire antenna is "out" unless it can be camouflaged (and then,
often, its performance is compromised), so one has to make allowances
for his/her particular situation.

With an abundance of local electrical noise, it is important to find
the source and to see if somehow it can be overcome. Recently in my
location we had two defective streetlights. One, a low-pressure sodium,
was fixed by the electic company rather rapidly. The other, a mercury
arc-vapor one, was not fixed for several months; I had to call the town
hall and the electric company quite a number of times before this light
was fixed. Having those defective lights was adding "insult to injury"
at my location already awash in electrical noise. (Too bad there isn't
an electrical noise reception hobby. Just imagine being able to tell
your friends "I picked up a high tension line from 10 miles away!" Boy!
What fun!)

To get to your original query, insulated wire makes a good outdoor
antenna. It should be run straight; the longer and higher the better in
general. (But bewa a great long wire, suitable for a good table-top
short wave radio, may badly overload a portable. Your antenna MUST be
"matched" to the particular receiver with which it will be used. Common
sense prevails here.) The wire should terminate at both ends to ceramic
(or similar) stand-off insulators. (Remember to affix those insulators
to connections with strain-relief.) The lead-in wire should be
connected at one end and that wire run to your receiver. The simplest
lead-in is just another piece of insulated wire attached to the +
terminal of your wire unput (on a table radio) or affixed to a 3.5 mm
plug (for a portable). If you are using a table radio, you can
experiment with a ground. Sometimes it helps, sometimes not. The best
ground is heavy copper wire attached to a metal rod driven about 6 feet
into the ground (at least in my experience). A portable radio does not
need a ground. IN ALL CASES, when using an outdoor antenna, you MUST
have lightning protection. (All radio shops can help you along those
lines.)

There are, of course, many other types of antennas: dipoles, Beverages,
vertical, tower, etc. Your call.

The best thing to do (and here I shall brook no argument) is to buy
several of the better books on antennas, such as Joe Carr's book
(available from Universal), PASSPORT's 'White Paper" about antennas,
and some others, and read them several times. The more you read, the
more you will know and understand. Does all that take time? Yes it does
and one could argue, "I'd rather be listening than reading and learning
all that stuff!" But unless you are willing to learn and then
experiment with antennas based on your knowledge, no matter what
receiver you own, you will never be able to use it to full advantage.

Once you have done all this (and it takes time, effort, and experience,
of course, for which there is no substitute), then you too will be an
"old-timer" like me!

Best,

Joe

LF,
..
An "On-the-Roof" Shortwave Antenna may be a good idea;
and an "In-the-Attic" Shortwave Antenna can also work well.
..
But when you have RFI / EMF Man Made Noise Problems
usually one sure way of reducing them is to use a Loop
Antenna to Null-Out the Noise Source or Peak the Signal
of the Radio Station you want to listen to.
..
An In-Door Loop Antenna is about as easy to build and
takes about the same amount of time money and effort
as an Out-Side {External} Shortwave Antenna.
..
READ - Four 'different' "In-Door" Loop Antennas Ideas
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortw...a/message/1933
..
Specifically take-a-look-at the : In-Door "On-the-Wall"
Loop Antenna for 'portable' AM/FM Shortwave Radios that
use a 1/8" (3.5mm) Jack for the External Antenna like your
Roberts R861 Radio.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortw...a/message/1845
..
This Antenna can be Mounted with Two Cup-Hooks
and a 8oz Fish Weight to position the Bottom-Center.
..
Try it on one wall and then the adjacent side wall (90*)
..
iane ~ RHF
..
All are WELCOME and "Invited to Join" the
Shortwave Listener (SWL) Antenna eGroup on YAHOO !
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
..
Some Say: On A Clear Day You Can See Forever.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortw...na/message/502
..
I BELIEVE: On A Clear Night . . .
You Can Hear Forever and Beyond, The BEYOND !
With a Shortwave Listener SWL Antenna of your own making.
"If You Build It {SWL Antenna} You Will Hear Them !"

Joe Analssandrini wrote:

Hello Laura,

The idea of walking around your area (and the roof) with your radio in
hand to see if interference is greater or lesser at various locations
is sound.

It's a very good idea. You can save yourself a lot of hassle by
'snooping' the area first before erecting an antenna. It's one of the
best ways to find radio interference.

You are quite right to question this. I have an antenna wire laying directly
on my roof. It's been there for over ten years and works as well as the one
I have in the back yard that's totally suspended. The one on the roof is
bare wire. I have used it for transmitting where it also works fine, as long
as it's not raining. In wet whether, the SWR goes nuts but this would not be
of any concern for receiving. You are right about the house electrical wire.
Thousands of ham antennas have been made from it.

"H Davis" wrote in message
...
First, my thanks to Laura for asking a question that guys probably
wouldn't
ask anymore than we would ask directions if lost. In both cases we seem to
be satisfied with wandering around.

Also, once again thanks to Joe for a somewhat complete answer to Laura's
question. (I'd love to get Joe over here for a long conversation and just
pick his brain for a few hours.) But I would like an even more complete
answer. Joe and others seem to feel that you can't just lay a wire on your
roof and hold it down somehow and still get better reception that you get
with the whip indoors. I'm thinking you aren't satisfied with that answer.
If you are, I apologize. I'm not satisfied.

I've heard all kinds of people suggest that you can tack a wire to the
fence
in your backyard and run a wire to your radio and get decent reception or
maybe just better reception. "Better reception than what?", you ask? Good
point. I guess I don't recall what the alternative was for sure, but I
think
it was one of us neophytes trying to get away from the whip again. And I
haven't heard it just once; I've heard it many times. Did they not
actually
mean tack it to the fence? Did they really mean use stand-offs and attach
it
to the fence. I don't think so, because most asking the question were
trying
to find a way to hide the antenna from the neighbors or the homeowners
association.

I've heard others say they live out in the boonies and have laid 1000 feet
of long wire on the ground and obtained terrific reception. (I suppose a
thousand feet of any kind of wire is bound to receive something!) This
seems
very much like laying a wire on the roof of one's house with one major
difference: out there in the boonies you would have less interference from
the junk most of us have in our homes and those next door to us.

Finally, I assume Laura was talking about laying insulated wire on her
roof
to improve reception. I'm not sure that bare wire would be a no-no (heck,
I'm new to this stuff, too), but I've heard the type of wire doesn't
really
make that much difference (within reason). I suspect this large roll of
#14
solid, insulated wire used to wire homes will work just as well as most
and
better than some.

Then we have that connection thing. The guys who have been into this hobby
for a while assume we all know how and where to connect the downlead to
the
main antenna wire. My head spins with all of the detail, but its kind of
fun
searching for answers .... especially when you have a bunch of people who
you can drag them out of.

All I'm sure of is that the Wellbrook is in my future.

Harlan

"Joe Analssandrini" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello Laura,

The idea of walking around your area (and the roof) with your radio in
hand to see if interference is greater or lesser at various locations
is sound. See if you can find a place which is relatively noise-free.
I'm afraid a length of wire just lain on the roof will probably be
unsatisfactory; it should be raised much higher and must not touch
anything. It should be attached to ceramic (or similar) insulators and
those insulators affixed to supports, with suitable strain-relief. You
can use coaxial cable (RG-6 or RG-8) as a lead-in, or you can even try
a twin-lead (300 Ohm) wire and terminate that in a 3.5 mm plug. If you
do use coax, I have found that Radio Shack does indeed sell adapters
for attaching it to your radio. I have used a BNC connector at the end
of coax, then a BNC to RCA adapter, and finally an RCA to 3.5 mm plug
adapter to connect an outdoor antenna to a portable radio (I did this
years ago when I was able to have an outdoor antenna; it worked just
fine.) I have done something similar to allow my Wellbrook antenna to
be used with my Sony ICF-SW7600GR.

If, however, you find that in your location there is nowhere without
electrical noise, you've got problems.

Are those restaurant ventilators ever turned off, perhaps in the middle
of the night? If you try your radio then and find no interference,
you've found its source.

If those machines are indeed the cause of your interference, the only
type of antenna which can overcome that (to a greater or lesser extent)
is a balanced loop design, such as the Wellbrook, and, as you know,
they are expensive (but well-worth the money if you can afford them).
What you'll spend or do depends just how serious you are about short
wave listening.

If you find that placing your radio (using its whip) near a window on
the side of your house farthest away from the ventilators results in
lower noise levels, you might try an AOR WL500 Window Loop Antenna
which can be mounted in that window. It is a loop of unbalanced design,
according to PASSPORT, but may help reduce some local electrical noise.
In my case, I tried it before I bought the Wellbrook ALA 330S and found
it to be a great help in my location, better than any other antenna I
had previously tried (I still use it with my Satellit 800), and it is a
great match for a portable radio (the Sony AN-LP1 is also a good
antenna for portables, but, in my experience, does not reduce local
electrical noise at all). It terminates in a BNC so the Radio Shack
adapters I mentioned above will easily adapt that antenna to your
radio. It may be worth a try though it, too, is expensive and, frankly,
is no match for the Wellbrook. If the WL500 works fairly well, then the
Wellbrook will work very well.

I hope that is of some help to you. Some of the other posts here also
have good ideas. Antennas are "scientifically" designed. But "science"
is no good at all when it comes to determining what will work at a
specific location. Only trial and error will tell you that.

All the best,

Joe

laura fairhead wrote:
Hi,

Can Joe or anyone else explain to me a few things; I am
trying to set up a antenna on the roof as reception is
really bad using the indoor whip (lots of interference
I live next door to a restaurant ventilator farm and I
think that may be a problem). Anyway I am thinking of
getting a length of wire and just laying it on top of the
roof under a couple of bricks to stop it getting blown
around. The thing I don't get is the connection down
the side of the house - I need to use a different cable yes?

I have heard people specify a length of "radio coax" is
suitable but I do not understand how this could be any
use without the shielding being grounded - could someone
explain?

My roberts R861 has a minijack anntena input - which has
2 connections on the plug - are they both used or is
only one? If I use a thick cable to run into the house
would I need any special attention to connect that to
the minijack?

What sort of length wire should I use on the roof, is
it just a case of the longer the better?

Thanks in advance for any advice

bestwishes
laura


I have never owned a Sangean ATS 909 nor do I know anyone who does.
According to PASSPORT TO WORLD BAND RADIO, the Sangean/Roberts works
BEST off its AC adapter as it "eats" batteries. An external antenna
is
necessary also, as it lacks sensitivity with its whip (according to
them).

A long wire, or loop antenna, mounted on your roof would be ideal.
Try
buying a length of insulated wire, two ceramic or equivalent
stand-off
insulators (to isolate the antenna from whatever support you use)
and
some lead-in wire; attach the appropriate plug to the lead-in to
attach
to the radio and you're in business. No separate ground is
necessary,
but make sure you DISCONNECT the antenna whenever the radio is not
in
use and, especially, during local thunderstorms. (NEVER use ANY
electronic appliance during a thunderstorm; storms only last a
half-hour or so.)

Do NOT let your antenna proper or the lead-in touch anything
metallic;
that will degrade the signal.


--
echo |sed 's/\(.\)\(.\)/\2\1/g'

It looks like everyone on this thread has top posted so I will just so
it continues to make sense. I did fix some of the broken formatting.

There is no problem laying the wire on the roof as long as it not near
any significantly long conductors. The impedance of the wire will be a
little lower than if it was hanging in mid air. The impedance of the
wire will drop much lower if it and the roof are wet, which will not
present a problem for receiving.

I would not use this as a transmitting antenna. It is a worse situation
when the roof is wet but even dry you are heating your roof with the RF
energy and this could start a fire if enough power is used.

In article ,
"CW" wrote:

You are quite right to question this. I have an antenna wire laying
directly on my roof. It's been there for over ten years and works as
well as the one I have in the back yard that's totally suspended. The
one on the roof is bare wire. I have used it for transmitting where
it also works fine, as long as it's not raining. In wet whether, the
SWR goes nuts but this would not be of any concern for receiving. You
are right about the house electrical wire. Thousands of ham antennas
have been made from it.

"H Davis" wrote in message
...
First, my thanks to Laura for asking a question that guys probably
wouldn't ask anymore than we would ask directions if lost. In both
cases we seem to be satisfied with wandering around.

Also, once again thanks to Joe for a somewhat complete answer to
Laura's question. (I'd love to get Joe over here for a long
conversation and just pick his brain for a few hours.) But I would
like an even more complete answer. Joe and others seem to feel that
you can't just lay a wire on your roof and hold it down somehow and
still get better reception that you get with the whip indoors. I'm
thinking you aren't satisfied with that answer. If you are, I
apologize. I'm not satisfied.

I've heard all kinds of people suggest that you can tack a wire to
the fence in your backyard and run a wire to your radio and get
decent reception or maybe just better reception. "Better reception
than what?", you ask? Good point. I guess I don't recall what the
alternative was for sure, but I think it was one of us neophytes
trying to get away from the whip again. And I haven't heard it just
once; I've heard it many times. Did they not actually mean tack it
to the fence? Did they really mean use stand-offs and attach it to
the fence. I don't think so, because most asking the question were
trying to find a way to hide the antenna from the neighbors or the
homeowners association.

I've heard others say they live out in the boonies and have laid
1000 feet of long wire on the ground and obtained terrific
reception. (I suppose a thousand feet of any kind of wire is bound
to receive something!) This seems very much like laying a wire on
the roof of one's house with one major difference: out there in the
boonies you would have less interference from the junk most of us
have in our homes and those next door to us.

Finally, I assume Laura was talking about laying insulated wire on
her roof to improve reception. I'm not sure that bare wire would be
a no-no (heck, I'm new to this stuff, too), but I've heard the type
of wire doesn't really make that much difference (within reason). I
suspect this large roll of #14 solid, insulated wire used to wire
homes will work just as well as most and better than some.

Then we have that connection thing. The guys who have been into
this hobby for a while assume we all know how and where to connect
the downlead to the main antenna wire. My head spins with all of
the detail, but its kind of fun searching for answers ....
especially when you have a bunch of people who you can drag them
out of.

All I'm sure of is that the Wellbrook is in my future.

Harlan

"Joe Analssandrini" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello Laura,

The idea of walking around your area (and the roof) with your
radio in hand to see if interference is greater or lesser at
various locations is sound. See if you can find a place which is
relatively noise-free. I'm afraid a length of wire just lain on
the roof will probably be unsatisfactory; it should be raised
much higher and must not touch anything. It should be attached to
ceramic (or similar) insulators and those insulators affixed to
supports, with suitable strain-relief. You can use coaxial cable
(RG-6 or RG-8) as a lead-in, or you can even try a twin-lead (300
Ohm) wire and terminate that in a 3.5 mm plug. If you do use
coax, I have found that Radio Shack does indeed sell adapters for
attaching it to your radio. I have used a BNC connector at the
end of coax, then a BNC to RCA adapter, and finally an RCA to 3.5
mm plug adapter to connect an outdoor antenna to a portable radio
(I did this years ago when I was able to have an outdoor antenna;
it worked just fine.) I have done something similar to allow my
Wellbrook antenna to be used with my Sony ICF-SW7600GR.

If, however, you find that in your location there is nowhere
without electrical noise, you've got problems.

Are those restaurant ventilators ever turned off, perhaps in the
middle of the night? If you try your radio then and find no
interference, you've found its source.

If those machines are indeed the cause of your interference, the
only type of antenna which can overcome that (to a greater or
lesser extent) is a balanced loop design, such as the Wellbrook,
and, as you know, they are expensive (but well-worth the money if
you can afford them). What you'll spend or do depends just how
serious you are about short wave listening.

If you find that placing your radio (using its whip) near a
window on the side of your house farthest away from the
ventilators results in lower noise levels, you might try an AOR
WL500 Window Loop Antenna which can be mounted in that window. It
is a loop of unbalanced design, according to PASSPORT, but may
help reduce some local electrical noise. In my case, I tried it
before I bought the Wellbrook ALA 330S and found it to be a great
help in my location, better than any other antenna I had
previously tried (I still use it with my Satellit 800), and it is
a great match for a portable radio (the Sony AN-LP1 is also a
good antenna for portables, but, in my experience, does not
reduce local electrical noise at all). It terminates in a BNC so
the Radio Shack adapters I mentioned above will easily adapt that
antenna to your radio. It may be worth a try though it, too, is
expensive and, frankly, is no match for the Wellbrook. If the
WL500 works fairly well, then the Wellbrook will work very well.

I hope that is of some help to you. Some of the other posts here
also have good ideas. Antennas are "scientifically" designed. But
"science" is no good at all when it comes to determining what
will work at a specific location. Only trial and error will tell
you that.

All the best,

Joe

laura fairhead wrote:
Hi,

Can Joe or anyone else explain to me a few things; I am trying
to set up a antenna on the roof as reception is really bad using
the indoor whip (lots of interference I live next door to a
restaurant ventilator farm and I think that may be a problem).
Anyway I am thinking of getting a length of wire and just laying
it on top of the roof under a couple of bricks to stop it
getting blown around. The thing I don't get is the connection
down the side of the house - I need to use a different cable
yes?

I have heard people specify a length of "radio coax" is suitable
but I do not understand how this could be any use without the
shielding being grounded - could someone explain?

My roberts R861 has a minijack anntena input - which has 2
connections on the plug - are they both used or is only one? If
I use a thick cable to run into the house would I need any
special attention to connect that to the minijack?

What sort of length wire should I use on the roof, is it just a
case of the longer the better?

Thanks in advance for any advice

bestwishes laura


I have never owned a Sangean ATS 909 nor do I know anyone who
does. According to PASSPORT TO WORLD BAND RADIO, the
Sangean/Roberts works BEST off its AC adapter as it "eats"
batteries. An external antenna is necessary also, as it lacks
sensitivity with its whip (according to them).

A long wire, or loop antenna, mounted on your roof would be
ideal. Try buying a length of insulated wire, two ceramic or
equivalent stand-off insulators (to isolate the antenna from
whatever support you use) and some lead-in wire; attach the
appropriate plug to the lead-in to attach to the radio and
you're in business. No separate ground is necessary, but make
sure you DISCONNECT the antenna whenever the radio is not in
use and, especially, during local thunderstorms. (NEVER use
ANY electronic appliance during a thunderstorm; storms only
last a half-hour or so.)

Do NOT let your antenna proper or the lead-in touch anything
metallic; that will degrade the signal.

--
echo |sed 's/\(.\)\(.\)/\2\1/g'


--
Telamon
Ventura, California