wrote:
I'm more convinced than ever that it's the noise you don't really
notice that makes life difficult. I've been waging a war against
noise
for some time now. I started using a Wellbrook loop, which helped a
lot
with noise. I attached ferrite cores to all the cables and power
cords
in my home, which helped more. I compared my reception when running
on
AC with the my reception when running off an external power supply,
and
found that the external power supply actually increased my noise
level
(can't win 'em all). Next, I compared my reception when using AC
power
to my reception when using battery power, and found that the battery
brought my noise down YET AGAIN. In each of these cases, I didn't
know
beforehand what, if anything, would result from changing my setup. In
most cases the results were positive and I'm glad I took the time to
experiment with them.

The moral is: If you think you don't have a noise problem, suspend
this
assumption just long enough to experiment a bit. You might be
surprised
at the improvement that's possible! The steps that helped me probably
won't help everyone, especially those who live in environments that
are
less noisy then mine. Still, I'll bet that most people would benefit
from at least one of these steps.

Steve
About 15 years ago we hasd a nasty ice storm.
Knocked out the AC mains, telephone, and cable TV for 3 days.
I was amazed at how quite it got.
I was operating from a couple of GellCells, kept charged off
by a a small PV (solar cell) array.
Other then freezing my but off, it was great fun.
Since I normally only go on camping/mine DX-epditions in the
late summer and early fall, it was much wquiter at home then
I had ever exeprienced in the deep woods.
I could hear the igniton noise from the highway about 1 mile
away!
I had very mixed feelings when they brought our power back on.
I was tired of the cold, but reslly enjoyed the quite.
I have done all that I can to reduce the RFI that I produce.
I have bypassed all the AC mains outlets, bypassed teh AC mains
where it enteres the breaker box, used lots of RFI suppresion
ferrite "beads" on all the active electronics, imporved my ground
system as much as I can, and use the best (lowest noise) antenna
that I can currently afford. Since I had a glimsp of what true radio
quite conditions were, I had the incentive to do what I could.
It made a big difference. But, alas it is a far cry from the quite
I had for a few days. Given the omnipresent man made electrical noise
around most American cities, I suspect that very few of us get to see
just how sensitive our receivers really are.
Terry

wrote:

(snip)
It made a big difference. But, alas it is a far cry from the quite
I had for a few days. Given the omnipresent man made electrical noise
around most American cities, I suspect that very few of us get to see
just how sensitive our receivers really are.

On the flip side, one could say that the receivers, especially
tabletops, HAVE to be sensitive in order to deal with all the noise.


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wrote
About 15 years ago we hasd a nasty ice storm.
Knocked out the AC mains, telephone, and cable TV for 3 days.
I was amazed at how quite it got.
I was operating from a couple of GellCells, kept charged off
by a a small PV (solar cell) array.
Other then freezing my but off, it was great fun.
Since I normally only go on camping/mine DX-epditions in the
late summer and early fall, it was much wquiter at home then
I had ever exeprienced in the deep woods.
I could hear the igniton noise from the highway about 1 mile
away!
I had very mixed feelings when they brought our power back on.
I was tired of the cold, but reslly enjoyed the quite.
I have done all that I can to reduce the RFI that I produce.
I have bypassed all the AC mains outlets, bypassed teh AC mains
where it enteres the breaker box, used lots of RFI suppresion
ferrite "beads" on all the active electronics, imporved my ground
system as much as I can, and use the best (lowest noise) antenna
that I can currently afford. Since I had a glimsp of what true radio
quite conditions were, I had the incentive to do what I could.
It made a big difference. But, alas it is a far cry from the quite
I had for a few days. Given the omnipresent man made electrical noise
around most American cities, I suspect that very few of us get to see
just how sensitive our receivers really are.
Terry

Roger that, in Virginia Beach every couple years or so we get a summer
week-off from the grid after a hurricane blows by. The reception is
phenomenal. I wonder what it would be like in the winter?

Jack

You can sometimes get rid of noise with the ANC-4, but it has been my
experience the noise needs to be really local, such as your damn PC.

I use a Wellbrook ALA-100, which is their basic amp with a roll it
yourself loop. I will never go back to a long wire. I've built a DC
adapter for the Wellbrook (as discussed before, the thing is postive
ground so use caution.) Taking the Wellbrook out in the boonies, you
can experience low noise. At my house, forget it.

This is the small loop, about 3ft on a side.
http://www.lazygranch.com/images/radio/loop1.jpg
http://www.lazygranch.com/images/radio/loop2.jpg
http://www.lazygranch.com/images/radio/loop3.jpg
http://www.lazygranch.com/images/radio/loop4.jpg
http://www.lazygranch.com/images/radio/loop5.jpg
I have a similar set up that is 7ft on a side. That is about as large
as this single hub design can handle.

The thing with the Wellbrook loop (supposedly) is that as you make it
larger, the signal to noise ratio increases. It's not like a long wire
where the longer length boosts both the noise and the signal. Here is
what Wellbrook says about this:
-----
The large aperture of the ALA 100 improves the signal pickup to
optimise the signal to noise ratio and also reduces fading at HF, this
is a very important advantage compared to small active antennas
http://www.wellbrook.uk.com/ALA100.html
--------
I run the ala 100 with a loop about the size of a hoola (sp) hoop. That
is about as small as you should go.

"Jack Painter" wrote in message
news:h0cVd.37530$%U2.35335@lakeread01...

wrote
About 15 years ago we hasd a nasty ice storm.
Knocked out the AC mains, telephone, and cable TV for 3 days.
I was amazed at how quite it got.
I was operating from a couple of GellCells, kept charged off
by a a small PV (solar cell) array.
Other then freezing my but off, it was great fun.
Since I normally only go on camping/mine DX-epditions in the
late summer and early fall, it was much wquiter at home then
I had ever exeprienced in the deep woods.
I could hear the igniton noise from the highway about 1 mile
away!
I had very mixed feelings when they brought our power back on.
I was tired of the cold, but reslly enjoyed the quite.
I have done all that I can to reduce the RFI that I produce.
I have bypassed all the AC mains outlets, bypassed teh AC mains
where it enteres the breaker box, used lots of RFI suppresion
ferrite "beads" on all the active electronics, imporved my ground
system as much as I can, and use the best (lowest noise) antenna
that I can currently afford. Since I had a glimsp of what true
radio
quite conditions were, I had the incentive to do what I could.
It made a big difference. But, alas it is a far cry from the quite
I had for a few days. Given the omnipresent man made electrical
noise
around most American cities, I suspect that very few of us get to
see
just how sensitive our receivers really are.
Terry

Roger that, in Virginia Beach every couple years or so we get a
summer
week-off from the grid after a hurricane blows by. The reception is
phenomenal. I wonder what it would be like in the winter?

I've never had that scenario happen for very long;
usually for me the power goes out for a while during
a thunderstorm, but I'm not inclined to fry my
electronics and hook up the big antenna at that
time. The two biggest changes I had to clean up
noise we move to a house where the electrical
and phone lines are underground, and to take the
Sat 800 off of the same breaker used by the Dell
laptop for work and put it on a separate one. In the
case of the Dell, noise coming through the AC/DC
transformer was absolutely horrible; my trusty home
computer never had that issue.

--Mike L.

Can I say "perfect"?
Terry

More sensitivity then the local noise floor doesn't do you any good
and might
add to your problems. Think about it. If you have 100uV of noise then a
receiver
with a 10uV threashol will need to have a signal that is above 100uV
to be heard.
A 90uV signal will be 10uV below the noise floor and lost.
It is much better to remove your local noise to the point where yoy can
use better sensitivity.
Terry

wrote:

More sensitivity then the local noise floor doesn't do you any good
and might
add to your problems. Think about it. If you have 100uV of noise then a
receiver
with a 10uV threashol will need to have a signal that is above 100uV
to be heard.
A 90uV signal will be 10uV below the noise floor and lost.
It is much better to remove your local noise to the point where yoy can
use better sensitivity.
Terry


I meant to say selectivity. I get the two confused sometimes (because
I'm a tard, right, Ace?).


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Even selctivity will not help all that much in the case of most
noise. Which by nature is broadbanded. When fightening
someforms of digitalnoise, a real narrow IF fitler can sometimes
help. But unless you are trying to dig CW out frm the man made
noise, super narrow filters are really much use. Much better to work
to reduce you local noise. A low noise antenna can really help. From
what I have read the Wellbrook loop,is great at reducing "point source"
noises. I have played with home made shielded/balanced loops, but
the results weren't worth the added trouble. I am currently playing
with a
sycnhronous noise blanker that "slices"/mutes the antenna output for an

adjustable number of mSec with a 60Hz line locked "switch". It almost
works.
Some of the Lowfers swear by this. The "swicth" has to go ahaead
of the radio's front end. I am strting to think that my 9:1 matching
transformer is "ringing".
Terry

For those interested in looking at looks to be a very
well thought out "line noise blanker", check out:
http://www.mods.dk/mod/kenwood/ts-950_syn_blank.pdf#search='synchronous%20line%20noi se%20blanker'
I hadn't checked back in a few months and tehre is a correction that
might just solve my problems.
Terry