You are lucky that somebody didn't rob you of that radio.
cuhulin

The higher up you can get the antenna,the better,that is what some folks
say.The chain link fence mucking things up,I dont know,but I think it
would.
cuhulin

Capacitive coupling to the metal fence would increase
both desired signal and noise. With noise going up faster
then the desired signals. I tried this many years ago
when we lived in a no antenna apartment.

I works with a wood plank fence.

Terry

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 11:06:37 -0500, wrote:

The higher up you can get the antenna,the better,that is what some folks
say.The chain link fence mucking things up,I dont know,but I think it
would.
cuhulin

Is there an RF ''boundary effect'' at HF (like a PZM microphone for
radio waves?).

Unless you can see all of that chain link fence,you never know what else
might be hooked up to it.I agree with experimenting with different
things and see what the results are.
cuhulin

In article . com,
wrote:
It's been hot as heck in NYC for the last couple of days. Yesterday, to
escape the heat, I spent much of the afternoon in Prospect Park,
where's there's usually a nice breeze and cooler temperatures. On a
whim I brought along 100 ft of wire and my HF-150. I laid the wire out
in a 'snake' configuration, right on the ground, and was pretty
impressed with the results. I was in a quiet spot there in the Park.
Even so, when people describe this as a low noise antenna, they aren't
kidding. Using a couple of tree limbs, I raised the wire up about 7-8
ft. The increase in noise was noticeable, and the s/n ratio was a
little worse.

I realize that the classic snake antenna uses coax, not wire. However,
ordinary old insulated wire sure seemed to work well for me yesterday.

I've read around on the web about these antennas and their low noise
characteristics, but I'd be interested to hear about any experiments
the readers of this group have done. I'm especially curious about how
the presence of metal objects in the immediate vicinity of a snake
antenna would affect its performance. For example, suppose you took
200ft of insulated wire and 'stiched' it through the bottow row of
'links' on a very long chain link fence. I can't imagine a stealthier
antenna than this, but would the fence muck things up?

Back last fall, I ran a snake antenna (60-80 feet of 24 ga. insulated
wire) through the bushes back into the woods behind my house. (This goes
to the high impedance, 500 ohm, input of my R-1000). The idea was a
total stealth antenna, down in the ground cover.

That seemed ok for a while. Then I decided to go walkabout with my
Grundig FR-200 at the same time as I was listening with my R-1000 on
wireless headphones to Radio Australia on 17795 at 4 PM local time.
When your $40 radio picks up better off the whip than a tabletop with
80 feet of wire, you know you've got antenna problems. Like damp ground
and snake antennas and anything above 6 MHz being mutually incompatible.

Tossing the same wire 20 feet up into the trees, and 17 MHz went
from below S1, down in the mud, to a reasonable S4.

Similar results this spring. (I was getting a bunch of interference
from the house remodel next door. My guess is that construction guys
must have done something to the phone wiring on a DSL line or broke
a ground connection on digital TV cable. Sounded like broadband
data comm crap all over). I ran about 80-100 feet about 3 feet off
the ground in the opposite direction from the first antenna. The
interference was much reduced, but it was much poorer than the other
antenna above 9 MHz.

Dampness in the ground and vegetation may be a factor. Here in
Seattle, you can count on that for about 9 months of the year.

Mark Zenier
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 16:29:14 GMT, "-=jd=-"
wrote:


On Sun 14 Aug 2005 10:56:46a, wrote in message
oups.com:

It's been hot as heck in NYC for the last couple of days. Yesterday, to
escape the heat, I spent much of the afternoon in Prospect Park,
where's there's usually a nice breeze and cooler temperatures. On a
whim I brought along 100 ft of wire and my HF-150. I laid the wire out
in a 'snake' configuration, right on the ground, and was pretty
impressed with the results. I was in a quiet spot there in the Park.
Even so, when people describe this as a low noise antenna, they aren't
kidding. Using a couple of tree limbs, I raised the wire up about 7-8
ft. The increase in noise was noticeable, and the s/n ratio was a
little worse.

I realize that the classic snake antenna uses coax, not wire. However,
ordinary old insulated wire sure seemed to work well for me yesterday.

I've read around on the web about these antennas and their low noise
characteristics, but I'd be interested to hear about any experiments
the readers of this group have done. I'm especially curious about how
the presence of metal objects in the immediate vicinity of a snake
antenna would affect its performance. For example, suppose you took
200ft of insulated wire and 'stiched' it through the bottow row of
'links' on a very long chain link fence. I can't imagine a stealthier
antenna than this, but would the fence muck things up?

Steve



Outstanding!

This is a post that should be shown to every new-poster who asks the
inevitable question, "What kind of antenna should I use?".

Just like , you use whatever you have and rig it up
however you can; then post your results.

It seems at times that folks get so tied up in the technical details, and
trying to *exactly* follow some established design, that they really miss-
out on finding out something new that can work acceptably for their unique
set of conditions.

I say lace that wire through the fence and see what you get. Conventional
wisdom is that you will get Result-A (and you very well may). But, wouldn't
it be interesting if you got Result-X, Y and/or Z?

-=jd=-

I expect some of your desired energy will be inductively coupled to
Ground through the fence posts spaced every 10 feet. I further expect
an insulated wire on the ground, not near any other metallic objects
will work better.

I have an instinct...

wrote in message
...

might be hooked up to it.I agree with experimenting with different
things and see what the results are.

Just can't leave the bestiality out of the thread, can you?

sdaniel:

Main coupling to the chain link fence with be by capacitive coupling
(inductive coupling, I suspect, would be negligible.

The chain link fence will have a "natural resonant frequency" of its own,
and favor some freq or range of freqs, and those freqs harmonics. This
could have a beneficial and/or counter effect on antenna depending on band
operation. This antennas impedance would be difficult to guess and/or
determine, one might try running the antenna though various ratio baluns
(or a multi-tapped rf transformer) to see if signal can be improved.

Any electrical interference the fence runs close to will increase noise
level. At my location there is a chain link fence which encircles tens of
acres... it boosts my LW TREMENDOUSLY! I have a weird "gamma match"
arrangement I have experimented with and tap the chain link fence with. I
have not experienced "noise" of any type but imagine it can occur under
circumstances favorable to its generation, and under proper conditions
which encourage it...

For the ~9 mhz range, just running an alligator clip to the fence, though
a 9:1 balun seems to work well for me... if you like toying with such
things, can be fun.

Hook it up and experiment, there is someway you can use what exists to
your advantage! Probably get ideas off the web, if you and I and more
have thought about this, probably many more have played with it...

John

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 07:56:46 -0700, sdaniel13 wrote:

It's been hot as heck in NYC for the last couple of days. Yesterday, to
escape the heat, I spent much of the afternoon in Prospect Park,
where's there's usually a nice breeze and cooler temperatures. On a
whim I brought along 100 ft of wire and my HF-150. I laid the wire out
in a 'snake' configuration, right on the ground, and was pretty
impressed with the results. I was in a quiet spot there in the Park.
Even so, when people describe this as a low noise antenna, they aren't
kidding. Using a couple of tree limbs, I raised the wire up about 7-8
ft. The increase in noise was noticeable, and the s/n ratio was a
little worse.

I realize that the classic snake antenna uses coax, not wire. However,
ordinary old insulated wire sure seemed to work well for me yesterday.

I've read around on the web about these antennas and their low noise
characteristics, but I'd be interested to hear about any experiments
the readers of this group have done. I'm especially curious about how
the presence of metal objects in the immediate vicinity of a snake
antenna would affect its performance. For example, suppose you took
200ft of insulated wire and 'stiched' it through the bottow row of
'links' on a very long chain link fence. I can't imagine a stealthier
antenna than this, but would the fence muck things up?

Steve

In article . com,
wrote:

It's been hot as heck in NYC for the last couple of days. Yesterday, to
escape the heat, I spent much of the afternoon in Prospect Park,
where's there's usually a nice breeze and cooler temperatures. On a
whim I brought along 100 ft of wire and my HF-150. I laid the wire out
in a 'snake' configuration, right on the ground, and was pretty
impressed with the results. I was in a quiet spot there in the Park.
Even so, when people describe this as a low noise antenna, they aren't
kidding. Using a couple of tree limbs, I raised the wire up about 7-8
ft. The increase in noise was noticeable, and the s/n ratio was a
little worse.

I realize that the classic snake antenna uses coax, not wire. However,
ordinary old insulated wire sure seemed to work well for me yesterday.

I've read around on the web about these antennas and their low noise
characteristics, but I'd be interested to hear about any experiments
the readers of this group have done. I'm especially curious about how
the presence of metal objects in the immediate vicinity of a snake
antenna would affect its performance. For example, suppose you took
200ft of insulated wire and 'stiched' it through the bottow row of
'links' on a very long chain link fence. I can't imagine a stealthier
antenna than this, but would the fence muck things up?


If you want a low noise antenna use a loop type that is sensitive only
to the magnetic part of the EM wave. Small loops will need amplification.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California