On 19 Oct 2005 11:54:51 -0700, "clu" wrote:

I am new to this and have been looking at a lot of reviews. It appears,
for my needs, the Sony 2010 is a real winner. But it is no longer
available for purchase.

Has there been a Sony model to replace it? The only model I can find is
the ICF-SW7600GR. Is this intended to be the replacement? I read
reviews on it and read that it is not quite as good as the Sony 2010.

If I wanted the Sony 2010, what product should I get that comes closest
to quality/value as the Sony 2010?

The 2010 was developed and refined in the 1970s, and there is probably
no "modern" Sony of comparable design. If you like the 2010, your best
bet is to look on eBay.

Try
http://electronics.listings.ebay.com...istingItemList
and do a search.

(By the way, the Japan Radio Company NRD-525 is as good or better than
the Sony, but will most likely be on eBay cheaper. Had one since 1988,
and not a single burp.)

bob
k5qwg

In article ,
wrote:
Building chips in mass quantitys doesn't cost much money per each
chip.Look at the chips in your computer.It isn't as if they would need
to design a completly new chip,in my opinion.All they would need to do
is start another run of chips.

Not possible. Chip design and manufacturing has changed greatly since the
early '80s. You would have to redesign the chips with modern materials
and manufacuring methods. The cost of doing this would be too high for
chips made in small quantities.

For example, wires were soldered to the chips. It is now illegal to
sell chips in most places with lead, e.g. solder, in them. New technqiues
have been developed, but that changes the capacitance and conductivity of
them which changes it's RF characteristics.

If you don't think so, ask on sci.electronics.repair about the availabilty
of old chips and the possibility of getting new ones made.

For example, if it were a simple chip and it cost $500,000 to make a real
working chip, as opposed to a first run "test chip", how many would you
have to sell in order to make money?

It would be cheaper to re-do it in a DSP chip.

However you did it, you still would have to spend several hundred thousand
dollars designing and programing the radio. By the time you are done
and have a working design ready for the street, with documentation,
etc, you will have spent close to $1m.

Assuming the actual unit costs $250 to manufacture, add $100 for development,
another $50 for packaging, advertisment and tech support and you have a
cost of $400 which translates to a street price of $800.

This is assuming 10,000 units made in the first production run before the
costs would be made back. With the current state of shortwave listening,
I'm not sure you could sell 10,000 units.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (077)-424-1667 IL Fax: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
You should have boycotted Google while you could, now Google supported
BPL is in action. Time is running out on worldwide radio communication.

On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 15:15:46 GMT, "Frank Dresser"
wrote:


"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote in message
...
In article ,
wrote:
Building chips in mass quantitys doesn't cost much money per each
chip.Look at the chips in your computer.It isn't as if they would need
to design a completly new chip,in my opinion.All they would need to do
is start another run of chips.

Not possible. Chip design and manufacturing has changed greatly since the
early '80s. You would have to redesign the chips with modern materials
and manufacuring methods. The cost of doing this would be too high for
chips made in small quantities.

For example, wires were soldered to the chips. It is now illegal to
sell chips in most places with lead, e.g. solder, in them. New technqiues
have been developed, but that changes the capacitance and conductivity of
them which changes it's RF characteristics.

Aren't the wires in chips wire bonded, which is akin to spot welding?

Have the "most places" who've banned the presumed chips with lead in them
also banned lead in the soldered connections on circuit boards?

I take it you mean banned outright, not just banned from landfills and
incenerators.
They have banned lead, but largely because of the fumes from the
production of the products, Pure tin solders have some very
interesting problems of their own, and it has been a very unpleasant
experience for the Military. Under conditions not well understood, the
tin will grow crystals sometimes, and the crystals can and do create
new connections that were never intended, usually with less than
desireable consequences...

"matt weber" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 15:15:46 GMT, "Frank Dresser"
wrote:


They have banned lead, but largely because of the fumes from the
production of the products,

I think the various lead bans are intended to keep lead out of the air and
drinking water. That is, no more lead in gasoline and no more lead based
plumbing solder. Much nasiter stuff than lead is used everyday in
industrial processes, and there aren't many problems. I'd think government
standards for industrial lead use would have to do more with exposure,
ventilation and training, rather than an outright ban. But I don't know,
and you might be right.


Pure tin solders have some very
interesting problems of their own, and it has been a very unpleasant
experience for the Military. Under conditions not well understood, the
tin will grow crystals sometimes, and the crystals can and do create
new connections that were never intended, usually with less than
desireable consequences...

Yep. Tin whiskers. Check out:

http://nepp.nasa.gov/whisker/

Interestingly, one of the recommended ways to reduce tin whiskering is to
avoid using pure tin plating and use tin-lead plating, instead.

Frank Dresser

clu wrote:
I am new to this and have been looking at a lot of reviews. It appears,
for my needs, the Sony 2010 is a real winner. But it is no longer
available for purchase.

Has there been a Sony model to replace it? The only model I can find is
the ICF-SW7600GR. Is this intended to be the replacement? I read
reviews on it and read that it is not quite as good as the Sony 2010.

If I wanted the Sony 2010, what product should I get that comes closest
to quality/value as the Sony 2010?

--
clu

Nothing comnparable replaced it imho. If you are looking for a 2010
then look for a good used one. It is a very nice radio, and nothing
comes close to it's size, good design, performance and ease of use.

That said you will get good performance from a Sony 7600 current model
at $130.00 or almost as good performance from a little chinese Degen
DE1103 for about $50.00

I know something about lead dust in the air.I once worked at a factory
in Florence,Mississippi that manufactured batteries for cars and 18
wheeler trucks and lawn mowers and also six volt old style batteries for
older model MG cars.The factory had a lot of big ducts in the ceiling
and big vacuum pumps that pulled the air inside of the factory up into
the ducts and that air was filtered with big industial filters,the
factory couldn't let lead dust get into the air outside of the
factory.At regular intevals,our blood was tested to see if there was any
lead getting into our blood stream.Sometimes,we would have to wear
little Miners vacuum pumps in one of our hip pockets during our work
shifts.The little Miners vacuum pumps had a piece of clear flexible hose
and a clip that let the hose be clipped on our shirts up near our necks
and there was a little round holder thingy with a little special piece
of paper in the holder.The little papers were sent off somewhere to be
tested.It it was determined we had been working too long in whatever
part of the factory and we were breathing air that had too much lead
dust in the air,we were moved to another part of the factory for a few
weeks that didn't have as much lead dust in the air.It was a lot of loud
noises inside of that factory too and at regular intervals,there was a
van that had special instruments and earphones that we put on to see if
we could hear certain kinds of low volume noises.If you were in the
Military before,you know what kind of hearing test I am talking about.At
the end of our daily work shifts,we all took a shower and put our
regular clothes on and we left our work uniforms at the factory.Nobody
wants to get home from work and spread lead dust all over the
place.y'all think Iraq is hot in the Summer time,,, go work in an auto
battery factory and y'all will know what real heat is like,I Guarantee
y'all that!
cuhulin

On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 15:34:27 -0500, wrote:

I know something about lead dust in the air.I once worked at a factory
in Florence,Mississippi that manufactured batteries for cars and 18
wheeler trucks and lawn mowers and also six volt old style batteries for
older model MG cars.The factory had a lot of big ducts in the ceiling
and big vacuum pumps that pulled the air inside of the factory up into
the ducts and that air was filtered with big industial filters,the
factory couldn't let lead dust get into the air outside of the
factory.At regular intevals,our blood was tested to see if there was any
lead getting into our blood stream.Sometimes,we would have to wear
little Miners vacuum pumps in one of our hip pockets during our work
shifts.The little Miners vacuum pumps had a piece of clear flexible hose
and a clip that let the hose be clipped on our shirts up near our necks
and there was a little round holder thingy with a little special piece
of paper in the holder.The little papers were sent off somewhere to be
tested.It it was determined we had been working too long in whatever
part of the factory and we were breathing air that had too much lead
dust in the air,we were moved to another part of the factory for a few
weeks that didn't have as much lead dust in the air.It was a lot of loud
noises inside of that factory too and at regular intervals,there was a
van that had special instruments and earphones that we put on to see if
we could hear certain kinds of low volume noises.If you were in the
Military before,you know what kind of hearing test I am talking about.At
the end of our daily work shifts,we all took a shower and put our
regular clothes on and we left our work uniforms at the factory.Nobody
wants to get home from work and spread lead dust all over the
place.y'all think Iraq is hot in the Summer time,,, go work in an auto
battery factory and y'all will know what real heat is like,I Guarantee
y'all that!
cuhulin

Well there you go. Mystery sol-ved.