Chuck Harris wrote:
gw wrote:

Chuck Harris wrote in message
...


-Chuck, WA3UQV


does that mean you still have some use for trash 80's?



Way too new! I'm more interested in old PDP 8, stuff, 8/I's
in particular. Things that have absolutely no practical use ;-)

-Chuck


So Chuck your looking for a Trash 8/E rather than a Trash 80. BTW my
Trash 80 was a real Trash 80. R.S said it was uneconomical to repair,
read out of warrenty replaced a bad ttl chip and away it went. A friend
reworked the firmware to get rid of the infamous keyboard and cassette
problems(we rescued 8 of them from that dumpster).
Bill

Bill Higdon wrote:
Chuck Harris wrote:


So Chuck your looking for a Trash 8/E rather than a Trash 80. BTW my
Trash 80 was a real Trash 80. R.S said it was uneconomical to repair,
read out of warrenty replaced a bad ttl chip and away it went. A friend
reworked the firmware to get rid of the infamous keyboard and cassette
problems(we rescued 8 of them from that dumpster).
Bill


Snort! That's a good one! I spent too much time using the original
TRS-80 to ever really want one. In one of my first consulting jobs
I wrote a bunch of drivers for a customer's Z80 controlled instrument
using the customer's TRS-80 as the development system. It worked just
fine, I guess... it got the job done, but I never did like it all that
much. I kind of liked the TRS80 IV, I think it was, that came out much
later.

-Chuck

FYI: I still use the Color Computer to do laser light shows.
Steve, k,9,d,c,i


"Chuck Harris" wrote in message
...
gw wrote:
Chuck Harris wrote in message
...

-Chuck, WA3UQV

does that mean you still have some use for trash 80's?


Way too new! I'm more interested in old PDP 8, stuff, 8/I's
in particular. Things that have absolutely no practical use ;-)

-Chuck

Steve Nosko wrote:
FYI: I still use the Color Computer to do laser light shows.
Steve, k,9,d,c,i

Good for you! I really felt stupid seeing mine in the trash can only a
year or two after having paid $300 for it.
Shoulda kept it? Nah.
Still have that little pocket version with 4k RAM, though. It'll come
in handy someday :-)
-Bill M

Chuck Harris wrote in message ...
gw wrote:
Chuck Harris wrote in message ...

-Chuck, WA3UQV

does that mean you still have some use for trash 80's?


Way too new! I'm more interested in old PDP 8, stuff, 8/I's
in particular. Things that have absolutely no practical use ;-)

-Chuck

perhaps one of you guys can tell me this. when you see a unit on ebay
and it says fresh calibration, what exactly does this mean to me as
the buyer? does this mean it will probably be operating ok for a few
years or is this something that has to be done yearly? for the home
shop hobbyist ? thanks.

"gw" wrote in message
om...
Chuck Harris wrote in message
...

SNIP

does that mean you still have some use for trash 80's?

Sorry, I never had much use for TRS-80's. But I do have a Commodore PET; a
very original one (with the black tape deck). It has an IEEE-488 port, and a
Basic that can control any IEEE-488 instrument. And, considering that it has
a built-in monochrome monitor, it qualifies as a genuine boat-anchor, since
it glows in the dark. g

Ed

"gw" wrote in message
m...
Chuck Harris wrote in message
...
gw wrote:
Chuck Harris wrote in message
...

-Chuck, WA3UQV

does that mean you still have some use for trash 80's?


Way too new! I'm more interested in old PDP 8, stuff, 8/I's
in particular. Things that have absolutely no practical use ;-)

-Chuck

perhaps one of you guys can tell me this. when you see a unit on ebay
and it says fresh calibration, what exactly does this mean to me as
the buyer? does this mean it will probably be operating ok for a few
years or is this something that has to be done yearly? for the home
shop hobbyist ? thanks.

A commercial calibration implies no warranty of future reliability. It just
means that the unit was inspected, by a lab with traceable standards (to
NIST), and that equipment parameters were found to be within the specified
tolerances (or some adjustments we made to allow for proper performance).

Every equipment should be on a periodic schedule of calibration, possibly 6
months or 12 months. The interval is determined by the original
manufacturer's declaration, or from the class of equipment (is it a resistor
or a function generator or an oscilloscope), or from the accumulated record
of a device's calibration history. (A Metrology professional can make a case
for shorter or longer intervals, based on a review of the calibration
history.)

The calibration is valid as of that date only, although it's reasonable to
expect that the calibration will be valid for some time to come (unless the
shipper dropped it as it went out the cal lab's door!).

All that said, a traceable calibration is an indication that the equipment
has been treated in a professional manner, and I would view that as a
definite plus when considering a purchase.


Ed
WB6WSN

"Chuck Harris" wrote in message
...
Hi Ed,

What I am NOT doing is trying to mix the needs of the hobbiest with
the realities of companies that build for professionals. You are
lamenting the fact that the newer gear is hard for hobbiests to
maintain. That argument will go soft on HP or Tektronix, or any of
several dozen other equipment manufacturers that make equipment for
professionals.

That's my opinion. Do I care what Agilent or Tektronix thinks? Gee, do they
care what I think? And why are YOU worried about their feelings? Sounds like
your nose if pretty far up somebody's butt!

The simple fact that your abilities at repair stop at thru hole,
technology, doesn't mean that devices that use hybrids, and surface
mount technology are not repairable.

By the average hobbyist? I don't think so!!!!!!!!!!!

The hybrid front end on the
2465 is quite repairable, but requires a little optical help, just
like watch repair, an 1800's tecnology.

Sorry, I don't do watches. A "little optical help" isn't a magnifying lens
in a fluorescent work light. SM work calls for something like a B&L stereo
viewer, and that's as expensive as a very decent oscilloscope. BTW, turn on
your spell checker, a 1980's technology.

From what I have heard, most
of the parts in the hybrid are standard off the shelf surface mount
faire... I have no direct knowledge of whether this is actually true.

Well, don't let lack of direct knowledge slow down your opinions.

SNIP

And to your assertion that I am a rich hobbiest, I am not an electronics
hobbiest at all! I am a self-employed electrical engineer, and I use
the test equipment I own to earn a living. Sadly, for me electronics
died as a hobby when I started getting paid to do it. The happy part
is I truly enjoy my work!

I wish you enjoyed reading the thread as well. I said you were either a
professional or a very rich hobbyist (as you had declared ownership of some
nice gear). OK, you are a professional. Do you hear me now? YOU ARE A
PROFESSIONAL!

-Chuck, WA3UQV

(I will admit that VERY obsolete electronics retains a hobby sort of
thrill for me... Old tube gear, and old minicomputers.)

Well, that's a good sign, as we have been yakking about this in the
boatanchors (and more) group. This is a hangout for hobbyists and very
frugal professionals.

Ed
WB6WSN

Fresh calibration, should mean that it was fully tested out,
cleaned and calibrated by a technician who knew what he was
doing....

What it actually means is anybodies guess. It could be actually
calibrated, it could be that the guy bought it surplus, turned
it on, and it lit up.

The words "fresh calibration" without an express warranty are
worthless.

Most anything Tektronix or HP made will stay in calibration to
close enough for hobbiest use for years.

A real bonifide business won't be comfortable using test equipment
that is out of calibration for anything very important. It is
their assurance that all of the functions should be working properly.

-Chuck, WA3UQV

gw wrote:

perhaps one of you guys can tell me this. when you see a unit on ebay
and it says fresh calibration, what exactly does this mean to me as
the buyer? does this mean it will probably be operating ok for a few
years or is this something that has to be done yearly? for the home
shop hobbyist ? thanks.

Ed Price wrote:

That's my opinion. Do I care what Agilent or Tektronix thinks? Gee, do they
care what I think? And why are YOU worried about their feelings? Sounds like
your nose if pretty far up somebody's butt!

You should care. Unless you suddenly start building your own test
equipment, you are going to be "stuck" with using equipment geared
toward professionals, and manufactured by companies like HP(Agilent)
or tektronix.

OBTW, can you think of a less vulgar way of expressing your opinions?

I have no financial interest in any test equipment manufacturer. They
don't give me special favors, or punishments for stating my opinions.

The simple fact that your abilities at repair stop at thru hole,
technology, doesn't mean that devices that use hybrids, and surface
mount technology are not repairable.


By the average hobbyist? I don't think so!!!!!!!!!!!

The "average hobbyist" once made complete radios from hunks
of rock, metal and wood. A pretty extreme feat for the time.
Now if it requires a little study, or the acquisition of some
special skill, or tools, it is deemed impossible.


The hybrid front end on the
2465 is quite repairable, but requires a little optical help, just
like watch repair, an 1800's tecnology.


Sorry, I don't do watches. A "little optical help" isn't a magnifying lens
in a fluorescent work light. SM work calls for something like a B&L stereo
viewer, and that's as expensive as a very decent oscilloscope. BTW, turn on
your spell checker, a 1980's technology.


At least when I post, my spelling is the result of my own efforts.
Yours, apparently, comes from the efforts of a machine. I don't
think it hurt your eyes all that much to stumble over one of my very
few typo's. When you type at over 100WPM, a few will sneak in now and
then.

The parts in these hybrids are very large compared with mechanical watch
parts. A cheapy stereo dissection microscope works very nicely...
easily had for $250 new, or $100 on ebay. Back in the days of yore,
adjusted to today's dollar, a soldering gun cost as much.

From what I have heard, most
of the parts in the hybrid are standard off the shelf surface mount
faire... I have no direct knowledge of whether this is actually true.


Well, don't let lack of direct knowledge slow down your opinions.

You have some direct knowledge that says differently? I know that there
will be some parts that are special, but I doubt all are. I have
several friends that do a good business repairing these "special"
hybrids, they aren't great big companies, just individual hams that saw
a market.

I haven't needed to go inside the hybrids on my 2465, mostly because I
don't put my scope into positions where it is likely it will get zapped.

And to your assertion that I am a rich hobbiest, I am not an electronics
hobbiest at all! I am a self-employed electrical engineer, and I use
the test equipment I own to earn a living. Sadly, for me electronics
died as a hobby when I started getting paid to do it. The happy part
is I truly enjoy my work!


I wish you enjoyed reading the thread as well. I said you were either a
professional or a very rich hobbyist (as you had declared ownership of some
nice gear). OK, you are a professional. Do you hear me now? YOU ARE A
PROFESSIONAL!


REALLY?

------ your exact words------------
..............................If you have a 2465B scope (one of the
finest analog scopes I have ever used), then you are one extremely wealthy
hobbyist, and the economic constraints most everyone else lives by must
not apply to you.
------ your exact words -----------

Stop trying to bend the record to make me look bad, and you look good.

(I will admit that VERY obsolete electronics retains a hobby sort of
thrill for me... Old tube gear, and old minicomputers.)


Well, that's a good sign, as we have been yakking about this in the
boatanchors (and more) group. This is a hangout for hobbyists and very
frugal professionals.

It is a hangout for people with an interest in boatanchors, nothing
more, nothing less.

-Chuck, WA3UQV