"Dave Heil" wrote in message
news
Airborne Express brought a fragile
e-bay purchase during a snow. Rather than driving up my drive (which I'd
done with a front wheel drive automobile, the guy placed the parcel atop
my postal mailbox alongside the road where it could have toppled to the
pavement or have been easily stolen by anyone.

I had a nice experience with AE once, and only once. It's the one and only
time I ever received anything through them. Great record in my book, (0 for
1)...

Received an eBay package. Not too big of a deal, wasn't worth much, but
they delivered it to the wrong address. Was delivered to the neighbor
across the street, on a Friday. They were gone all weekend, so it didn't
get to me until Monday. Worst part, it was on their doorstep, wasn't put in
the porch, and it rained the entire weekend. Box and contents were so
saturated with water, the neighbor barely go it to me without it completely
falling apart...

Worse yet, the label was made out to the proper address, their tracking site
indicated the proper address, but when the driver logged the delivery, he
even indicated that it was delivered to the wrong address. He wrote the
address he dropped it at, instead of the my address; how blind can you be?!

If only the shipper would have given me the tracking info, I could have gone
across the street and gotten it myself before it got too wet, but they were
apparently too lazy to email it to me, so I didn't find out until after I
got the package from the neighbor and looked up the tracking info online.

On 13 Oct 2005 06:21:10 -0700, wrote:

In the case of UPS it seems to have more to do with the shipper than
anything else.

And sometimes it's the gremlins. Two horror stories:

1. Six years ago I shipped an AEA TNC to Timewave for an upgrade,
UPS insured. It was well-packed - I've spent many years doing
domestic and overseas packing of fragile household goods and
electronic equipment (and during the 1967 War a commercial ocean
shipper hired me to so some of it because his regular staff was out
doing military service) so I DO know how to pack well. Timewave
reported that the knob and shaft on the only front-panel control was
bent and had to be replaced. Fast forward to last year. I had to
ship another TNC to them, and mindful of the first experience, put
TWO INCHES of snug-wrapped bubble-pack around the instrument, then
two inches of sheet foam around that. I swear - the packing must
have weighed as much as the instrument. You guessed it - Timewave
reported that the control was damaged in shipment although the box
and the packing was intact.. Go figure.

2. Quite a number of years ago I had a commercial art framer send a
one-of-a-kind drawing cross-country to a friend of mine for a
special birthday. It went UPS insured. When it arrived, my friend
reported that there was a small crack in the glass frame and I
reported that to the shipper. They made arrangements for UPS to
return the item for re-framing. When it arrived back at the framer,
the package looked like someone had used it for a tennis racket.
The drawing was destroyed, and unfortunately the artist had passed
away and very little of his remaining collection was "on the market".
We did manage to get something not really that close, but the
"specialness" of the event was completely ruined. I don't know
who they used to ship the second time but it got there with no
further incidents. Because the shipper guaranteed the shipment, I
left it up to their lawyers to haggle with UPS.

The only problem that I've had with the local UPS delivery here is
that he leaves the package and rings the bell, and then it's a race
to see if I can open the door before I see The Big Brown Truck drive
off.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

Phil Kane wrote:
On 13 Oct 2005 06:21:10 -0700, wrote:


In the case of UPS it seems to have more to do with the shipper than
anything else.


And sometimes it's the gremlins. Two horror stories:

1. Six years ago I shipped an AEA TNC to Timewave for an upgrade,
UPS insured. It was well-packed - I've spent many years doing
domestic and overseas packing of fragile household goods and
electronic equipment (and during the 1967 War a commercial ocean
shipper hired me to so some of it because his regular staff was out
doing military service) so I DO know how to pack well. Timewave
reported that the knob and shaft on the only front-panel control was
bent and had to be replaced. Fast forward to last year. I had to
ship another TNC to them, and mindful of the first experience, put
TWO INCHES of snug-wrapped bubble-pack around the instrument, then
two inches of sheet foam around that. I swear - the packing must
have weighed as much as the instrument. You guessed it - Timewave
reported that the control was damaged in shipment although the box
and the packing was intact.. Go figure.

Sounds like bovine excrement to me. I have dealt with companies in the past
that always found certain things "broken" on items returned for repair,
even when they weren't. It is a great way of bringing in a little extra
money, and the customer has no way of proving the lie... well, unless
the company tells the same lame story over and over again like Timewave
appears to have done.


2. Quite a number of years ago I had a commercial art framer send a
one-of-a-kind drawing cross-country to a friend of mine for a
special birthday. It went UPS insured. When it arrived, my friend
reported that there was a small crack in the glass frame and I
reported that to the shipper.

I'm betting this wasn't packed the way UPS says you should pack fragile
items: double box, 2 inches of packing around the item, and 2 inches of
packing around the inside box. You cannot just throw a glass frame into
a box, and fill the box with peanuts, and expect it to survive. The
frame needs a single wrap of thin foam (cardboard thickness), a piece of
wood, or masonite front and back taped firmly. This should then be placed
in a sealed plastic bag. This composit should be wrapped loosly with
2 inches of bubble wrap, and boxed. The inside box should then have
another 2 inches of loosly packed peanuts. You can set the stage for a
great amount of damage to a fragile item by simply packing the peanuts
too tightly in the box.

I have *never*, repeat *never* had a problem with UPS damaging an item
that was properly packed. On the one or two occasions I have had a damage
problem, the items were heavy, and were tossed into the box, with a little
bit of crumbled newspaper thrown in on top to fill up the empty space.

Or someone has shipped a BA that originally was shipped with the transformer
removed, with the transformer installed... stupid stuff.

That isn't UPS's fault, that is the shipper's fault.

UPS moves quickly, packages literally fly through their hub. UPS gives
recommendations on how to pack to survive. If you don't follow them,
you are taking a very big risk. FedEX's ground operations are identical
to UPS's. FedEX's air freight operations gain some protection from damage
by forcing you to use their standardized boxes.

-Chuck

Back in the minicomputer days, we had a disk drive for a DEC PDP11-70 on
order. In those days drives were large and heavy, and a single drive might
take up one-third of a rack. Well, the freight truck driver pulled up near
the loading dock, opened the rear doors and backed the semi up to the
loading dock. The driver got out again and looked around for unloading help.
Not finding any help, he climbed inside the trailer and rolled the 120 pound
crate out the back of the truck and down onto the loading dock. The height
difference between the floor of the trailer and the loading dock was about
four feet. The driver pulled forward, closed the trailer doors and drove
off. Needless to say the drive didn't work, and the shock detector inside
the packing crate indicated the drive had suffered at least one large
impulse during shipment from the factory to the customer.

"Chuck Harris" wrote in message
...
Phil Kane wrote:
[stuff]
Sounds like bovine excrement to me. I have dealt with companies in the
past...
[stuff]

In article ,
"John N9JG" wrote:

Back in the minicomputer days, we had a disk drive for a DEC PDP11-70 on
order. In those days drives were large and heavy, and a single drive might
take up one-third of a rack. Well, the freight truck driver pulled up near
the loading dock, opened the rear doors and backed the semi up to the
loading dock. The driver got out again and looked around for unloading help.
Not finding any help, he climbed inside the trailer and rolled the 120 pound
crate out the back of the truck and down onto the loading dock. The height
difference between the floor of the trailer and the loading dock was about
four feet. The driver pulled forward, closed the trailer doors and drove
off. Needless to say the drive didn't work, and the shock detector inside
the packing crate indicated the drive had suffered at least one large
impulse during shipment from the factory to the customer.

ObAlsoRealLife: the quote below came about following the revelation that
"ruggedised" PDP-11s were made for the military that were *intended* to
be airdropped and remain fully functional. The bind moggles....

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

If being dropped out of an aircraft into what is, for all anyone knows,
a minefield is "moderately rough handling", what would constitute
"rough handling" or "very rough handling"? -- David Richerby

Being shipped UPS. -- Dave Brown

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Chris.

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 16:15:37 -0400, Chuck Harris wrote:

have weighed as much as the instrument. You guessed it - Timewave
reported that the control was damaged in shipment although the box
and the packing was intact.. Go figure.

Sounds like bovine excrement to me. I have dealt with companies in the past
that always found certain things "broken" on items returned for repair,
even when they weren't. It is a great way of bringing in a little extra
money, and the customer has no way of proving the lie... well, unless
the company tells the same lame story over and over again like Timewave
appears to have done.

The cost of the replacement of the control was included in the flat
advertised price of the upgrade so a) it didn't cost me anything and
b) they would have lost money by "just doing it" unless necessary.

special birthday. It went UPS insured. When it arrived, my friend
reported that there was a small crack in the glass frame and I
reported that to the shipper.

I'm betting this wasn't packed the way UPS says you should pack fragile
items:

This was done by a commercial art framer and shipper who ships
fragile and valuable artwork all over the world. I'm sure that they
knew what they were doing. The problem wasn't the way it was
shipped by them - a small crack can result from many causes
including stress relief in the glass - and is no big deal compared
to the condition that it was returned in. We had the "as arrived at
consignee destination" pictures and the "as received in return by
original shipper" pictures to prove it.

The bottom line was that UPS figured that this would be covered by
the shipper's insurance so they didn't give a flying fig about
what happened to the package as they repacked it (by their own
request) and returned it.

UPS moves quickly, packages literally fly through their hub. UPS gives
recommendations on how to pack to survive. If you don't follow them,
you are taking a very big risk.

A former neighbor retired as the regional UPS customer service chief
some years ago. The stories she told after retirement which were
similar to mine would make your hair stand up.

Perhaps they now have a better grade of handler ???? I seem to
feel that they have a better grade of delivery persons over the last
decade.

FedEX's ground operations are identical to UPS's.

FedEx Ground is the former RPM. I have never had problems with them
and lately have done most of my business with FedEx.

FedEX's air freight operations gain some protection from damage
by forcing you to use their standardized boxes.

Never had problems with them.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

Phil Kane wrote:

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 16:15:37 -0400, Chuck Harris wrote:


have weighed as much as the instrument. You guessed it - Timewave
reported that the control was damaged in shipment although the box
and the packing was intact.. Go figure.

Sounds like bovine excrement to me.

Ya wanna know my gripe with both of them?

I live in Puerto Rico USA and neither of the two will treat this
location as domestic USA. Its International Air pricing right down the
line and discounted "ground" services are not offered.
The Postal Service doesn't have this lack of imagination and gets
"ground" (Parcel Post) here with sea shipping in a few days at rates
parallel with anywhere else in the US.

-Bill M

Bill wrote:

Ya wanna know my gripe with both of them?

I live in Puerto Rico USA and neither of the two will treat this
location as domestic USA. Its International Air pricing right down the
line and discounted "ground" services are not offered.
The Postal Service doesn't have this lack of imagination and gets
"ground" (Parcel Post) here with sea shipping in a few days at rates
parallel with anywhere else in the US.

-Bill M

It is an interesting gripe. The Postal service is US government
subsidized, UPS and FedEX are private companies. Why should they
charge you anything other than what it costs them to service your
location? They charge everyone else a rate that is graduated based
on distance traveled.

-Chuck

Chuck Harris wrote:

Bill wrote:

Ya wanna know my gripe with both of them?

I live in Puerto Rico USA


It is an interesting gripe. The Postal service is US government
subsidized, UPS and FedEX are private companies. Why should they
charge you anything other than what it costs them to service your
location? They charge everyone else a rate that is graduated based
on distance traveled.

-Chuck

In fairness there are actually import 'technicalities' for shipping
certain items to PR and implications of the local tax structure, not
unlike the Canadian scenario. Not that they do a good job with the
Canadian market either. But UPS/Fedex/etc simply refuse to equally
service this market of 4 million US people and the sellers/vendors that
have obliged themselves to shipping ONLY via UPS/Fedex wind up refusing
our patronage.
I can't imagine them (or the affected vendors) telling everyone in say,
the Toronto market, that "sorry, we don't serve that area" but thats the
case here and I know Alaska and Hawaii suffer much of the same.
Kinda screwy but thats why its MY gripe! The thieving bandits at USPS
work great for me...who needs those others? USPS will get a package to
me from NY as cheap as it will get it to California, and often, quicker.

-Bill

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 11:17:50 -0700 (PDT), "Phil Kane"
wrote:




The only problem that I've had with the local UPS delivery here is
that he leaves the package and rings the bell, and then it's a race
to see if I can open the door before I see The Big Brown Truck drive
off.

That was decided years ago. Numerous friends who work for UPS
tell me that, maybe ten or fifteen years ago, the beancounters figured
the extra deliveries that could be made instead of waiting for sigs
would easily cover the cost of stolen-off-the-doorstep shipments.

A friend told one of these people that a $600 antenna had been
left in plain sight under his exterior stairway and it might have been
nice to claim it wasn't delivered so he could have a spare for his
summer home.

But they have this wacko deal where it's at the driver's
discretion as to whether or not to require an adult's presence and
sig. I once had some computer books shipped from Amazon. I came home
to a yellow sticky saying the package had to be delivered to and
signed for by an adult. I called about it. No reason was given, but I
was told I could not just sign the yellow sticky and leave it on the
door.

Since the UPSsholes only work when I am at work, I had them
divert the shipment to work, hoping it wasn't some porn mis-shipped to
me for the amusement of the mailroom staff.

It was just my Amazon order, so I called UPS to ask what the
hell was up. They said the driver could make the non-overridable
judgement to require adult presence and sig. The nest they could guess
was that there might have been thefts of packages in my neighborhood,
so he decided to lay on the requirement.