That was the night of the big game in our house.
Were were up till 1:30 or so Eastern Time.
We went to bed up beet her team won.
When I a woke at 6 am and hired the news I woke her we were shoked.

If anyone in charge of people's lives is watching... please check these
websites...

for buying time when the air is thin, or blackdamp situations:
http://www.submersiblesystems.com/

Gives some extra time for evac...
in a "trap" situation, not much one can do, as the problem is getting the
air scrubbed of CO2 and CO or whatever other gas is about.

for Mine/cave radio system stuff:
http://www.infomine.com/index/suppli...y_Limited.html
and
http://bcra.org.uk/creg/

rb



"Alien" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Brenda Ann" wrote:

"Alien" wrote in message
...
In article ,
mike murphy wrote:

In article ,
"Hamguy" wrote:

KC8VKZ

very sad situation:

Kind of strange they don't have any kind of decent ( even primitive)
comm system in place in the mines

Each miner should be carrying personal communications like
firefighters.

The problem with that being that when they are two miles deep in the
mine,
radio comms are all but worthless. To get comms for the rescue workers,
they
had to relay by radio from two points, then by wire from the last relay
point to the command center. One might suggest repeaters every so often,
but
these could easily be damaged or destroyed during an explosion or
cave-in.

I thought there were some freq which would pass thru rocks and earth to
great depths. LF perhaps, but that would present other problems. There
must be some way for them to reliably communicate other than by wire.

Woody wrote:

If anyone in charge of people's lives is watching... please check these
websites...

for buying time when the air is thin, or blackdamp situations:
http://www.submersiblesystems.com/


I hold a Master Scuba Diver rating and will tell you these things are
not thought of very well in the experienced scuba diving community.
They hold about 3 cft of air. That MIGHT give them 5 minutes of air at
best. Highly unlikely they would have made any difference in this mine
disaster. They were originally designed for military helicopter pilots
that crashed at sea, to give them time to get out of the aircraft and to
the surface.

Yep... seat belts can kill you too, under certain circumstance; but if only
one life is ever saved by this, isn't it worth it?

NOTHING is foolproof. One cannot prepare for every possibility, we just try
to prepare for as many as practical.

You are correct, in a 'trap' situation, spare air [as I said before] is only
a slim chance device. But shouldn't people be given EVERY chance?

[Walk into a black-damp and you'll wish you had one of these for your
retreat..]

I just didn't want to get into the debate that co2 scrubbing would be more
helpful than air/O2 in a 'trap' situation...
rb



"nitespark" wrote in message
news:wJ7wf.41531$Mi5.37103@dukeread07...


Woody wrote:

If anyone in charge of people's lives is watching... please check these
websites...

for buying time when the air is thin, or blackdamp situations:
http://www.submersiblesystems.com/


I hold a Master Scuba Diver rating and will tell you these things are not
thought of very well in the experienced scuba diving community. They hold
about 3 cft of air. That MIGHT give them 5 minutes of air at best.
Highly unlikely they would have made any difference in this mine disaster.
They were originally designed for military helicopter pilots that crashed
at sea, to give them time to get out of the aircraft and to the surface.

Woody wrote:
Yep... seat belts can kill you too, under certain circumstance; but if only
one life is ever saved by this, isn't it worth it?

NOTHING is foolproof. One cannot prepare for every possibility, we just try
to prepare for as many as practical.

You are correct, in a 'trap' situation, spare air [as I said before] is only
a slim chance device. But shouldn't people be given EVERY chance?

[Walk into a black-damp and you'll wish you had one of these for your
retreat..]

I just didn't want to get into the debate that co2 scrubbing would be more
helpful than air/O2 in a 'trap' situation...
rb

They already carry a device which will allow them an hour of air. How
many things do you think they can lug around and still do their jobs?

jak
snip

I agree nothing is foolproof, however seatbelts, in combination with
airbags have a proven record of dramatic decrease in injuries in a crash
and if there are injuries, a dramatic decrease in fatal injuries. The
facts prove that without question.

No such facts exist for the "spare air". Another poster mentioned they
already had devices that gave them an hour. I was not aware of that.
But I was in the fire service for 27 years. The 30lb SCBA units we used
were rated for 30 minutes and they had 45cft bottles. With a 3cft Spare
Air you can do the math. Even the newer high pressure SCBA's with the
composite bottles at 4500psi are only rated at 1 hour.

My only point is in a situation where rescue operations are spoken of in
"days" instead of minutes and seconds, a 3cft breathing device is pretty
much useless.

Woody wrote:
Yep... seat belts can kill you too, under certain circumstance; but if only
one life is ever saved by this, isn't it worth it?

NOTHING is foolproof. One cannot prepare for every possibility, we just try
to prepare for as many as practical.

You are correct, in a 'trap' situation, spare air [as I said before] is only
a slim chance device. But shouldn't people be given EVERY chance?

[Walk into a black-damp and you'll wish you had one of these for your
retreat..]

I just didn't want to get into the debate that co2 scrubbing would be more
helpful than air/O2 in a 'trap' situation...
rb



"nitespark" wrote in message
news:wJ7wf.41531$Mi5.37103@dukeread07...


Woody wrote:


If anyone in charge of people's lives is watching... please check these
websites...

for buying time when the air is thin, or blackdamp situations:
http://www.submersiblesystems.com/


I hold a Master Scuba Diver rating and will tell you these things are not
thought of very well in the experienced scuba diving community. They hold
about 3 cft of air. That MIGHT give them 5 minutes of air at best.
Highly unlikely they would have made any difference in this mine disaster.
They were originally designed for military helicopter pilots that crashed
at sea, to give them time to get out of the aircraft and to the surface.




--
I have never met a liberal street cop.

???? Which is exactly what I said as well.... no debate here.

I speak volume in litres, not cu.ft. but that other post is from another
planet, I agree.

rb

"nitespark" wrote in message
news:Pzhwf.41594$Mi5.11202@dukeread07...
I agree nothing is foolproof, however seatbelts, in combination with
airbags have a proven record of dramatic decrease in injuries in a crash
and if there are injuries, a dramatic decrease in fatal injuries. The
facts prove that without question.

No such facts exist for the "spare air". Another poster mentioned they
already had devices that gave them an hour. I was not aware of that. But
I was in the fire service for 27 years. The 30lb SCBA units we used were
rated for 30 minutes and they had 45cft bottles. With a 3cft Spare Air
you can do the math. Even the newer high pressure SCBA's with the
composite bottles at 4500psi are only rated at 1 hour.

My only point is in a situation where rescue operations are spoken of in
"days" instead of minutes and seconds, a 3cft breathing device is pretty
much useless.

Woody wrote:
Yep... seat belts can kill you too, under certain circumstance; but if
only one life is ever saved by this, isn't it worth it?

NOTHING is foolproof. One cannot prepare for every possibility, we just
try to prepare for as many as practical.

You are correct, in a 'trap' situation, spare air [as I said before] is
only a slim chance device. But shouldn't people be given EVERY chance?

[Walk into a black-damp and you'll wish you had one of these for your
retreat..]

I just didn't want to get into the debate that co2 scrubbing would be
more helpful than air/O2 in a 'trap' situation...
rb



"nitespark" wrote in message
news:wJ7wf.41531$Mi5.37103@dukeread07...


Woody wrote:


If anyone in charge of people's lives is watching... please check these
websites...

for buying time when the air is thin, or blackdamp situations:
http://www.submersiblesystems.com/


I hold a Master Scuba Diver rating and will tell you these things are not
thought of very well in the experienced scuba diving community. They hold
about 3 cft of air. That MIGHT give them 5 minutes of air at best.
Highly unlikely they would have made any difference in this mine
disaster. They were originally designed for military helicopter pilots
that crashed at sea, to give them time to get out of the aircraft and to
the surface.




--
I have never met a liberal street cop.

Hello! Welcome to Earth. Can you please show us this device you speak of???
An internet link perhaps?



"jakdedert" wrote in message
.. .
Woody wrote:
Yep... seat belts can kill you too, under certain circumstance; but if
only one life is ever saved by this, isn't it worth it?

NOTHING is foolproof. One cannot prepare for every possibility, we just
try to prepare for as many as practical.

You are correct, in a 'trap' situation, spare air [as I said before] is
only a slim chance device. But shouldn't people be given EVERY chance?

[Walk into a black-damp and you'll wish you had one of these for your
retreat..]

I just didn't want to get into the debate that co2 scrubbing would be
more helpful than air/O2 in a 'trap' situation...
rb

They already carry a device which will allow them an hour of air. How
many things do you think they can lug around and still do their jobs?

jak
snip

Woody wrote:
Google is your friend....

jak


Hello! Welcome to Earth. Can you please show us this device you speak of???
An internet link perhaps?



"jakdedert" wrote in message
.. .

Woody wrote:

Yep... seat belts can kill you too, under certain circumstance; but if
only one life is ever saved by this, isn't it worth it?

NOTHING is foolproof. One cannot prepare for every possibility, we just
try to prepare for as many as practical.

You are correct, in a 'trap' situation, spare air [as I said before] is
only a slim chance device. But shouldn't people be given EVERY chance?

[Walk into a black-damp and you'll wish you had one of these for your
retreat..]

I just didn't want to get into the debate that co2 scrubbing would be
more helpful than air/O2 in a 'trap' situation...
rb


They already carry a device which will allow them an hour of air. How
many things do you think they can lug around and still do their jobs?

jak
snip

Well yeah, that's the obvious first thing to do.... but still didn't find
anything you describe..?

The only [the standard] carry device offers about 30min and it isn't air,
it's a tiny O2 canister with a CO2 scrubber and re-breather bag.

Anything beyond that and it's a shoulder or back pack kept in a central
location, not carried.
rb



"jakdedert" wrote in message
.. .
Woody wrote:
Google is your friend....

jak


Hello! Welcome to Earth. Can you please show us this device you speak
of??? An internet link perhaps?



"jakdedert" wrote in message
.. .

Woody wrote:

Yep... seat belts can kill you too, under certain circumstance; but if
only one life is ever saved by this, isn't it worth it?

NOTHING is foolproof. One cannot prepare for every possibility, we just
try to prepare for as many as practical.

You are correct, in a 'trap' situation, spare air [as I said before] is
only a slim chance device. But shouldn't people be given EVERY chance?

[Walk into a black-damp and you'll wish you had one of these for your
retreat..]

I just didn't want to get into the debate that co2 scrubbing would be
more helpful than air/O2 in a 'trap' situation...
rb


They already carry a device which will allow them an hour of air. How
many things do you think they can lug around and still do their jobs?

jak
snip