I think you have to refer to people like Al as "Code Nazis" as they want
to force it on everyone, they try to make it into something it is not,
they think code is a cure for what ails the amateur service, and the
only way to salvation is through the code. Anyone who is not on the
code bandwagon is unfit for the amateur service and needs to be eliminated.

"All hail the code!" - NOT!

Al Klein wrote:

If text is the only way to go, why do you speak?

Can you say "Yes, I ar wun"?

On 10 Jul 2006 19:53:45 -0700, "an old friend"
wrote:

Al Klein wrote:
On 10 Jul 2006 18:40:07 -0700, "an old friend"
wrote:

but it is load of bullto say Morse is a language

Your opinion, not that of those who can converse in it.
my opinion yes but also a fact Morse code is no more a language than
Crillic is

Yes, I know your opinion. That still makes it just your opinion.

it is simply an alphabet

No more than ASL is "just an alphabet". (BTW, those who actually
study the subject consider both Morse and ASL to be languages.)

you can exchange a limited amount of info using the stand codes but you
can say "do you walk or run by the sea" in morse to any one that does
not speak or read english first

Neither can you communicate with someone in ASL if they don't
understand English. So? That still doesn't stop ASL from being a
language.

you are simply spreading ignorance al

That you don't know something doesn't make it the ignorance of others.

no such requirement exists indeed if you can read then the question and
answers are suposed to read to you and your aswers taken down

Languageless?

yes indeed although it easier if you do understand english not required

So if you don't understand English you can still answer English
questions. Interesting.

not suree if you can take the test in spanish

I'm sure - you can. But one thing's for sure - it has to be in SOME
language.

You MUST demonstrate proficiency in at least ONE
language to get a license, even today.

nope no such requirement exists not for techs not generals and not
extras either

Stop arguing and start thinking. Your claim - that one doesn't have
to know any language to pass the test - is nonsense.

indeed you point out the way you can get a license without demtating
skill with english if you simply memroize all the questions and answers

In what language?

their remains no requirement that you understand the content, that task
is easier if you know english but not a requirement

You can understand the content if you don't understand any language?
How?

where is this requirement for lang skill in part 97?

Part 97 itself.

A code test is demonstrating
proficiency in two languages - not a major step.

expect you are never required to demostrate profiicentcy in any
language at all

Which you are. You're just arguing, not thinking.

and if you were 2 languages would twice one and Code is NOT a langauage
just an alphabet

Again, your opinion, not the opinion of language experts.

Indeeded the ignorance of Hams that spread such tales have been one of
the tools the No Code movement has been using against you

The reason the FCC is dropping the code requirement has absolutely
nothing to do with any "movement" or any lame argument like "you don't
have to understand any language to pass the test".

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 07:42:38 -0400, "J. D. B."
wrote:

No Al, CW is a mode not a language.

You're arguing against experts in the field of language, not against
me.

Are you seriously this ignorant?

Are you?

Just about any language on the planet can use the mode CW which makes it
not a language.

Any language can be signed - but ASL is a recognized (by the experts)
language. Which nullifies that argument.

J. D. B. wrote:
I think you have to refer to people like Al as "Code Nazis" as they want
to force it on everyone, they try to make it into something it is not,
they think code is a cure for what ails the amateur service, and the
only way to salvation is through the code. Anyone who is not on the
code bandwagon is unfit for the amateur service and needs to be eliminated.

"All hail the code!" - NOT!

indeed and I have from time to time

spread any lie and deciet in there cause

Brenda Ann wrote:
"Al Klein" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 07:42:38 -0400, "J. D. B."
wrote:

Any language can be signed - but ASL is a recognized (by the experts)
language. Which nullifies that argument.

CW is not a language, it is a mode. I think what is being confused here is
Morse code, and in particular much of the Morse shorthand used in the CW
mode (and, for that matter, in much of phone mode as well). Those ARE a
language of sorts.
they are a jargon but they can comincate the rnanage of expression
twith someone that does not share with the same underlying language
that Al needing to glofiy his favortie mode chooses to over look it's
limits (and prehaps it has no limits for him and can indeed express
everything he wants to express on the air)

Al Klein wrote:
On 10 Jul 2006 19:53:45 -0700, "an old friend"
wrote:

you are simply spreading ignorance al

That you don't know something doesn't make it the ignorance of others.

no such requirement exists indeed if you can read then the question and
answers are suposed to read to you and your aswers taken down

Languageless?

yes indeed although it easier if you do understand english not required

So if you don't understand English you can still answer English
questions. Interesting.

all that is required is getting the right answers down on the answer
sheet

how the test taker manages that (other than cheating) is up the take
of the test one of the options

understanding the lang of the question is merely one or the options the
best one for the ARS but for example MY wife did not understand some
the question on her tech test using the fact I know something of how
the test is asembled and graded she was able to fill correctly some of
the ansers by looking for a patern in the in answers of the questions
she could understand without this test taking skill ( avarient of skill
taught in some corners for passing other tests) she would not be a ham
today

and yet she was able to help set up at FD this year and make some
contact and has been able to devolpe soe of the skill needd in the ARS,
enough to be complmented on her skill duiring reccent local emergency
here in the area. i was busy geting theour aux power back online and
adjusted to the loads I wanted carried and she used the radio (and
helped by reading a a few reading fromt he station back to me as I
worked on stablizing our household systems

My wife does not understand a great deal of the content of the messages
she relayed, such understanding was not required in order to be of
assitance

On her own she has slowly been feling her way into the preveldges
offered by her license, amsuingly to those that know me she is
developing some talnet for Morse Code and and has been making a qso's
in that mode but due being still clumsy and a more than bit of test
anxiety has been unable to pass a test that and the fact the tone the
arrl uses gives her a headache and the ARRL will not alow another tone
to used without the report of an audiologist (at a cost of about 2k)
means she will wait tille the FCC acts to get an HF license like I am
waiting

Al Klein wrote:

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 02:15:26 GMT, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

Dip****. If code is the only way to go, why are you using text for
your usenet messages? Can you say "Hypocrite"

If text is the only way to go, why do you speak?

Can you say "Yes, I ar wun"?


Can't you spell any better than that?

So, Al. Can you tell us how many receivers or transmitters have you
built from scratch? Not from a kit, or someone else's design, but from
scratch? Drew a block diagram that was converted to a real schematic
one block at a time where you did all the math, laid out the chassis,
cut and drilled all the holes and built the equipment all by yourself?


What is the biggest transmitter you've ever built or used? I'm a
disabled now, but I worked in broadcast, and built telemetry equipment
that is in use all over the world, and in orbit. Tell us, what can you
do other than whine? Have you ever built a commercial TV station from
scratch? Have you ever maintained a 5 MW EIRP UHF plant with a 1700
foot+ tower? Had the fun of finding parts for a transmitter that
haven't been made for 15 years while managing to stay on the air?

I found CW boring years ago, and have some hearing problems so I said
to hell with Morse code and got involved in the equipment design end of
things. It was more fun for me to develop a design and built it, get it
aligned and working, then move on to the next design.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

On 11 Jul 2006 09:24:44 -0700, "an old friend"
wrote:

they are a jargon but they can comincate the rnanage of expression
twith

Something you obviously haven't learned to do yet.

Al Klein wrote:
On 11 Jul 2006 09:24:44 -0700, "an old friend"
wrote:

they are a jargon but they can comincate the rnanage of expression
twith

Something you obviously haven't learned to do yet.
did you have any point to make?

OTOH your coment does prove my point that being even know that
demonstarting langiuauge is NOT a requiremnt for a license

On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 00:49:48 GMT, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

Can you say "Yes, I ar wun"?

Can't you spell any better than that?

A spelling flame! I'm vanquished!

So, Al. Can you tell us how many receivers or transmitters have you
built from scratch? Not from a kit, or someone else's design, but from
scratch? Drew a block diagram that was converted to a real schematic
one block at a time where you did all the math, laid out the chassis,
cut and drilled all the holes and built the equipment all by yourself?

3 receivers, about a dozen transmitters. Oh, yes, and the automation
system of the Hong Kong Space Museum planetarium, the old Amtrak
ticket printer, some software that's in use in over 50,000
installations around the world ...

But I'm not the typical ham, I've been a design engineer for a long
time.

What is the biggest transmitter you've ever built or used? I'm a
disabled now, but I worked in broadcast

Never built anything over a kilowatt, but engineered some pretty hefty
ones. (Ch. 40 in Waterbury CT, WWRL, WHN, a few others.)

(You remind me of an IBM HR department of old. They always wanted to
know the largest program the applicant ever wrote. Someone
legitimately told them, back when software was a few k, that he'd
written a 3 meg program. It was a translation program with a 3 meg
dictionary. You're playing "mine is bigger than yours.")

Tell us, what can you do other than whine? Have you ever built a commercial TV station from
scratch?

All by myself, no. Ever build a planetarium automation system all by
yourself from scratch (including inventing some of the technology -
which is still, after 30 years, state of the art)? But I'm not going
to get into a ****ing contest with you. If you were mentally as old
as you claim your body to be you wouldn't have started one.

I found CW boring years ago, and have some hearing problems so I said
to hell with Morse code and got involved in the equipment design end of
things. It was more fun for me to develop a design and built it, get it
aligned and working, then move on to the next design.

Since I totally depend on 2 4 channel BTE aids, I can't receive CW
that easily any more, but that's not a good reason for the FCC to drop
the requirement. It's not even a bad reason. But when anyone can
guess well enough to pass the "technical" part of the exam, the
license isn't worth much.