Al Klein wrote:
On 11 Aug 2006 18:51:28 -0700, "an old friend"
wrote:

Al Klein wrote:

I think I know what I'm claiming a little better than you do.

not likely

Very juvenile of you.
exactly on point

you can't even semem to make up your mind what you are claiming

your beef has nothing to do with the tests it is to do with end of the
Hazing ritual that is a bout to occour

There's a hazing rule in ham radio? Since when?
sure there is it is called Morse Code testing

Al Klein wrote:
On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 02:16:22 GMT, Cecil Moore
wrote:

Al Klein wrote:
Showing that you DON'T know the difference.

I personally don't care why the unit of resistance
is named the ohm.

Which has nothing to do with the discussion.
no it is part of the very core

at some level all you can do a merorize

Al Klein wrote:
On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 02:18:17 GMT, Cecil Moore
wrote:

Al Klein wrote:
One doesn't, but "first principles" has nothing to do with this
discussion - a fact you still don't understand.

There's two ways to learn: 1. Memorize knowledge, 2. develop
knowledge from first principles.

Which has nothing to do with the difference between memorizing answers
and learning theory.
sure it does
it is the very core of it

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
m...
L. wrote:
YES - you could simply "memorize" (not really commit to memory)

Here's the crux of your communications problem. From Webster's:
"memorize - to commit to memory". *Everything* that one
memorizes is the act of committing something to memory. You
definitely need to pick a different word than "memorize"
to describe the concept you are trying to present. Memorizing
is how human beings remember things and it is a good thing.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Eh, excuse me, it was not "I" who started splitting hairs here with regard
to MEMORY AND MEMORIZATION.
"I" KNOW what "memorization" means - I was using it in the "SLANG" sense
that YOU all are arguing about - memorizing something for just a few moments
of need as opposed to a "lifetime". There ARE "SLANG" uses for popular words
which do NOT coincide necessarily with Webster. Again, it was not "I" who
started this ridiculous argument.

AND for what it is worth - if you're (whoever this applies to) that freaking
lazy to not want to have to "learn" something - then it is no damned wonder
this country is going to hell. The downfall of our Education system begins
with that very principle (refusal to learn). I don't give a crap WHAT Hitler
or some other idiot said about being lazy and smart - if you're lazy - you
are no damned good to society or yourself for that matter. The REST of us
who have to pick up the pace to deal with the slackers. I'll be damned if I
ever hire a "LAZY" smart person. I want a person who is going to EARN their
keep. Sitting there telling me how things should be isn't what I would hire
them for - the purpose is to DO the things as they're supposed to be done.

Working smarter - not harder - is a good concept - but I DO NOT THINK - the
originator of it meant for LAZY asses to be using it as an EXCUSE to not
have to learn. I live by that concept (work smarter - not harder) often but
it sure in hell hasn't stopped me from having to - OR DESIRING to LEARN.

Lou

L. wrote:
"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
m...
L. wrote:
YES - you could simply "memorize" (not really commit to memory)

Here's the crux of your communications problem. From Webster's:
"memorize - to commit to memory". *Everything* that one
memorizes is the act of committing something to memory. You
definitely need to pick a different word than "memorize"
to describe the concept you are trying to present. Memorizing
is how human beings remember things and it is a good thing.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Eh, excuse me, it was not "I" who started splitting hairs here with regard
to MEMORY AND MEMORIZATION.
"I" KNOW what "memorization" means - I was using it in the "SLANG" sense
that YOU all are arguing about - memorizing something for just a few moments
of need as opposed to a "lifetime". There ARE "SLANG" uses for popular words
which do NOT coincide necessarily with Webster. Again, it was not "I" who
started this ridiculous argument.
but you choose to step into themiddle of of your own free will

AND for what it is worth - if you're (whoever this applies to) that freaking
lazy to not want to have to "learn" something - then it is no damned wonder
this country is going to hell. The downfall of our Education system begins
with that very principle (refusal to learn). I don't give a crap WHAT Hitler
or some other idiot said about being lazy and smart - if you're lazy - you
are no damned good to society or yourself for that matter. The REST of us
who have to pick up the pace to deal with the slackers. I'll be damned if I
ever hire a "LAZY" smart person. I want a person who is going to EARN their
keep. Sitting there telling me how things should be isn't what I would hire
them for - the purpose is to DO the things as they're supposed to be done.

Working smarter - not harder - is a good concept - but I DO NOT THINK - the
originator of it meant for LAZY asses to be using it as an EXCUSE to not
have to learn. I live by that concept (work smarter - not harder) often but
it sure in hell hasn't stopped me from having to - OR DESIRING to LEARN.
and nobody but your side has suggested it does

but there still ramins no need for me to ever know the differentce
between a collpitts and hartely occilator. If I should need that
knowledge It sits in the trdh shelf down bout the middle in nice bright
red book I used in college where it describes the difference in detail
"so that the reader my find older reference book usefull" or words to
that effect as I recell

and occionaly I do take it off the shelf and refer to it to exactly
that materail

Lou

L. wrote:
"I" KNOW what "memorization" means - I was using it in the "SLANG" sense
that YOU all are arguing about - memorizing something for just a few moments
of need as opposed to a "lifetime". There ARE "SLANG" uses for popular words
which do NOT coincide necessarily with Webster.

Sorry, my unabridged dictionary doesn't acknowledge a slang
definition for "memorize" as it certainly does for other
words used as slang. You really need to find another word
to use to define your concept. You seem to be talking about
temporary storage, the exact opposite of memorizing.

Working smarter - not harder - is a good concept - but I DO NOT THINK ...

:-)
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

an old friend wrote:
and occionaly I do take it off the shelf and refer to it to exactly
that materail

A brilliant lazy person knows that having the answer
within arm's reach is just as effective as knowing the
answer and probably much more efficient. At this very
moment, I have about 60 reference books within arm's
reach.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
m...
L. wrote:
"I" KNOW what "memorization" means - I was using it in the "SLANG" sense
that YOU all are arguing about - memorizing something for just a few
moments of need as opposed to a "lifetime". There ARE "SLANG" uses for
popular words which do NOT coincide necessarily with Webster.

Sorry, my unabridged dictionary doesn't acknowledge a slang
definition for "memorize" as it certainly does for other
words used as slang. You really need to find another word
to use to define your concept. You seem to be talking about
temporary storage, the exact opposite of memorizing.

Working smarter - not harder - is a good concept - but I DO NOT THINK ...

:-)
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Now you're trying to be a smart "ass" (there's some slang for ya) .
Again, it was not "MY" argument here - splitting hairs. AND as for thinking,
I think you ought to go back a couple days or better and reread the threads.
Unlike some in this ridiculous argument, I DO think.. I THINK IT IS CRAZY.
Don't you all have something better to do? I don't care what "YOUR"
dictionary shows. There are some out there for example which show the word
COCK for example - as a type of Bird OR the preparing of a rifle or gun for
firing and leave it at that - while a "few" others will show the "Slang"
term used - as many do - meaning sexual organ. SO - ALL DICTIONARYS ARE NOT
CREATED EQUAL. What may not show up in YOUR dictionary as slang - may
certainly - in others. AND perhaps it was a "misuse" of the word
"Memorize" - I was merely trying to rationalize where you AND AL Klein both
were coming from. Now, neither one of you make any sense - he argues against
memory and you against having to do any work. MANY people "misuse" words -
very much and very badly. MY (mis)use was ONLY intended for the sake of this
STUPID argument.

Lou

From: Steve Stone on Sat, Aug 12 2006 6:31 am
Groups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna, rec.radio.amateur.policy,
rec.radio.scanner,

rec.radio.swap


Ham radio is gonna be flushed big time if this is all you old farts are
worried about.

Steve, you may be quite right!

There is NO expression from these federally-authorized morsemen
of amateur radio being a HOBBY. [it is a "service" to the
country or something para-military...and "hobby" is not in the
Rules (except by definition)] Indeed, they bristle and come
unglued at the slightest negativism of their mighty endeavors of
"professional amateurism" with all its rank, status, and glory.
Ham radio can't be just "fun" for its own sake, an enjoyable
pastime, something done for personal pleasure. No, one has to
enjoy ONLY Their views, like what they like, or suffer the
consequences of being considered "lower caste" on par with
river-bottom slime.

These mighty macho morsemen demand OBEDIANCE to their views and
opinions, are quick to call disbelievers any name they choose,
always denigrative, condescending, with heavy overtones of
attempted humiliation. They are the unforgiving in regards to
anyone NOT worshiping their status, rank, titles in amateurism.
Unforgiving to the point of attacking ANYONE against them.
They RULE. [they think...but only in here...]

While these mighty macho morsemen take out their frustrations,
resentments, anger against all not idolizing their opinions,
there are some actual amateur radio issues which need addressing.
The removal or continuation of the morse code test for US amateur
radio license testing is still in limbo; official Comment period
on the NPRM was over late last year. Access BPL recently had a
rules revision/addendum added by the FCC with a Report and Order
released on 7 August 2006. No one in here apparently cares about
it since the "ARRL is on the job," "fighting" to keep HF "safe"
(for their membership?). [ho, ho, some "fight"...]

No one cares to discuss two BIG issues. Everyone is busy, busy,
trying to insult anyone who doesn't subscribe to Their views.
Ain't no "discussion" here, hasn't been for years. Internecine
personal warfare is the order of the day. Everyone in here
either obeys the rulings of Big Brother in Newington or
they are considered lower forms of (barely) life.

The number of US amateur radio licensees is slowly dropping
(expirations greater than new licensees to the tune of 10K
in three years). Membership in the ARRL (the "representative"
of all, according to them) has never been more than a quarter
of all US licensees. Technician class licensees are very
very close to being a full half of all classes (49.07% of all
individual licensees as of 12 Aug 06).

Lettuce all bow our heads and worship morsemanship...these
are the salad days of the brass-pounders. Morse is the answer
to everything I'm told. [over and over again] :-)

Beep, beep...

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
m...
an old friend wrote:
and occionaly I do take it off the shelf and refer to it to exactly
that materail

A brilliant lazy person knows that having the answer
within arm's reach is just as effective as knowing the
answer and probably much more efficient. At this very
moment, I have about 60 reference books within arm's
reach.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

For a short time, you had my attention as being correct at least part of the
time - in this ongoing dumb argument. But here's where we part ways - "along
with the "memory" deal - which "I" didn't start.

A "brilliant" "lazy" person - isn't worth a dime. Brilliant ? BY WHO's
DEFINITION? I have a ton of books in my reach too - so whats your point?
Yes, SOME are "reference" books - but many I spent hours in "STUDYING".
It is the "reference" books I use for things not used daily or even at times
month to month. Books on hobbies I have but not enough time to get into as
much - or repair manuals for my test equipment - should I need to do so.
Having a ton of books at arms length doesn't substitute for KNOWLEDGE OR
WORK. Those "books" sure in hell aren't going to "troubleshoot" equipment
for me to earn my pay. They're not going to diagnose my body to heal me.
They're not going to fix my vehicle "just" by having them at arms length.
They may make you LOOK smart! They won't "make" you a Ham operator, Nuclear
Physicist, Doctor, Lawyer, Mechanic, etc.
SO what - you can pull (legal/physics/etc) laws out or Meds and dosages,
spark plug clearances and so on - BIG DEAL. anyone with half a brain can do
that. Even those who busted their ass to get to the top have to keep
"working" at it to STAY at the top. Even today, Bill Gates - smart as he is,
I'm sure is still working on "something". I'm sure he doesn't sit there with
his ton of "reference" books at arms length - and do NOTHING. And I'm
DAMNED sure - he had to study long and hard to learn all he knows to get to
where he is today. I will bet my last dime he would tell you himself - it
wasn't easy. It took LOTS of hard work, dedication, studying, committment,
TRIAL AND ERROR - to make things work. TRIAL AND ERROR doesn't get done
sitting on your ass. NOTHING worth while - does. UNLESS of course that so
called "brilliant" "lazy" person is collecting a welfare check - smart yes -
but not enough to be gainfully employed. Ya know - I have knowledge of a man
who can recite transistor theory and much much more - formulas and all from
his head. BUT - the poor ******* can't even solder. He has NO clue on how to
troubleshoot or repair. So, tell me - what good is it to JUST be
"brilliant"? AND AGAIN - BY WHO'S STANDARDS? Hell, I've known supposedly
slow and/or "mentally retarded" people that put so called "knowledgeable"
people to shame. They talked with more sense, didn't assume they knew
everything and sure in hell weren't afraid to TRY to work. Those who "CLAIM"
to know everything - usually aren't worth a plugged nickle. We ALL have
something to "learn" each and every day of our lives. Anyone who thinks
otherwise or that they know it all - are DEAD already. They won't get
anywhere in life. "I" for one will NEVER EVER claim I know "everything". I
LOVE to learn new things and look forward to each new adventure - be it
repairing something - tackling a new problem never seen before to learning
things to do with my "other" activities that take up many hours of my life.
In THOSE fields - "knowing it all" can get you KILLED.

Sorry dude - I jumped track from agreeing with you............ Pick it apart
all you want. LAZY DOES NOT WORK - no matter which way you cut it. I'm
leaning in the direction that you've apparently bought one of those GET RICH
QUICK WITHOUT WORKING books............ SORRY DUDE - THEY DON"T WORK.

L.

And as for "Hitler" claiming that - as you said about his admiration for a
brilliant lazy man - eh......... last I heard - the man was a fruit cake,
lost the war, cost thousands of lives, innocent ones at that - and ended up
committing suicide - WHAT A LOSER. And I would want to follow his
examples/principles - why?