From: an old freind on Tues, Aug 22 2006 4:16 pm


K4YZ wrote:
an old freind wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
tried the same old tired rhetoric:

But, challenge Robeson or call him in error and one will be
inundated with personal insults. Robeson MUST be right and
he MUST rule. Civil comportment be damned with Robeson in
newsgroups. Those newsgroups were (in his mind) created to
showcase Him?

Yep.

agreeing for once get help

Get help for what?

well a pro needs to way but Id say meglomanina paranoia, pathological
lying for starts

Give up on Robesin, Mark. He MUST remain "right" and He
"must" rule. He isn't interested in civility. Once an
"enemy" of his, always an enemy in his mind. Sick way to
be but he is that way, repeatedly. He just proved it in
the message you replied to.

He is setting the example for all hams. Not going to help
the amateur ranks in getting more hams but that is not,
apparently, his point. Robesin needs to come out on TOP in
his own mind, be chieftan, be the warlord.

He also wants rec.radio.amateur. policy all his own to do with
as he sees fit. [probably to have his daily fits in...]

Ech...

but titles like that are Robeson stock in trade my content in his posts
just ranting on and on about epople instead of Issues

Absolutely true, Mark. He tries to belittle his "enemies" so that
He looks good. Problem is, it is working in reverse and he is only
belittling himself.

But there's nothing to prevent people who appreciate and love the
language of Morse, the way it sings, its universality, its beauty,
from continuing to use it way into the future.

It is the beauty of Morse, in plain English, never mind the
abbreviations, which boy scouts and others who show an interest should
be taught to appreciate.
----
Reg, G4FGQ


I completely agree with you
N2UBP

wrote:
From: an old freind on Tues, Aug 22 2006 4:16 pm


K4YZ wrote:
an old freind wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
tried the same old tired rhetoric:

But, challenge Robeson or call him in error and one will be
inundated with personal insults. Robeson MUST be right and
he MUST rule. Civil comportment be damned with Robeson in
newsgroups. Those newsgroups were (in his mind) created to
showcase Him?

Yep.

agreeing for once get help

Get help for what?

well a pro needs to way but Id say meglomanina paranoia, pathological
lying for starts

Give up on Robesin, Mark. He MUST remain "right" and He
"must" rule. He isn't interested in civility. Once an
"enemy" of his, always an enemy in his mind. Sick way to
be but he is that way, repeatedly. He just proved it in
the message you replied to.

I use him for punching bag hopeing he might give it up

did you catch the bit where he claims that he is acting as MY firend I
am gald I was not drinking something , i might have choked to death

He is setting the example for all hams. Not going to help
the amateur ranks in getting more hams but that is not,
apparently, his point. Robesin needs to come out on TOP in
his own mind, be chieftan, be the warlord.

he is great as bad example. I use robeson posts as warning to people
all the time I have specail set book marked to us as warning fo r where
their behavoir might lead

He also wants rec.radio.amateur. policy all his own to do with
as he sees fit. [probably to have his daily fits in...]

in a few day weeks or months I will quit this feild signing off here as
KB9RQZ/AE

Ech...

but titles like that are Robeson stock in trade my content in his posts
just ranting on and on about epople instead of Issues

Absolutely true, Mark. He tries to belittle his "enemies" so that
He looks good. Problem is, it is working in reverse and he is only
belittling himself.
indeed

I agree.
rb

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 23:19:25 GMT, "Woody" wrote:

Um.... you know, just saying "I agree" would have been a lot simpler and
saved you 2 pages of typing.... LOL.
rb
len likes to carry on

as is his right
http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"Dave Oldridge" wrote in message
9...
"Woody" wrote in
news:%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08:

Did someone drop you on your head at birth? The reason 50wpm can save
lives is probably a bit complex for you to get both your functioning
neurons around, but believe me, having done CW for a living for some
decades I do know that it can save lives. And if you're faster than the
average bear at it, you can tell someone on the scene things they need to
know all that much faster.


Possibly, because try as I might, I can't really remember much about that
day.... I had pyloric stenosis, if that counts?

So apparently YOUR answer to this question is that you couldn't send your
name if your own life depended on it.

Now that's true... I'd require a CW setup of some kind in order to send my
name; or anything else for that matter.
Or as previously pointed out, hack up a headphone jack and tippy tap the
wires together. Either way, I don't see my life depending on it at any time,
so I'll just let my CW skills continue to rust.
However; your argument does make me wonder how non-hams even have a chance
at life in this world... ??


Believe me, I get it. I don't think CW ought to be mandatory and it
isn't where I live. I do think people who intend to use it should learn
how to use it properly, though. For CW to be effective, both operators
must be competent. IF they are, they can often transcend barriers of
language that only digital modes can get over. In my own case, the fact
that I could read CW and read written Spanish a bit once enabled me to
render aid to a burning fishing boat. (There were other more routine
examples of where the language barrier was crossed by CW--many messages I
copied were not in English at all, but were readable by their end
recipients).

OK.... so by your own words, CW still didn't save a life... CW mixed with
bad Spanish passed a message. So now we'll have to add a Spanish test.
Thanks a lot.

As for the language thing.... I can copy voice language and hand it off to
another native just as easy and they'll figure it out too.
No CW necessary.

BTW, I noticed you conveniently left out the specific year in which said
burning boat was offshore with an obsolete CW outfit, and how your CW
expertise put out a fire.... but I'm guessing we're talking many a year ago,
so again, a moot point.
Actually,
The boat thing in general is really killing me... If these numb-nuts are
offshore and not on the correct USCG freqs and/or unaware of how to properly
tune their radios in an emergency, then it isn't CW saving lives, it's the
grace of God that somebody happened to be on their freq at that time. But
again, what boats are out there with a CW rig???? That's crazy, bubba. :-)
rb

wrote in
:

On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 01:10:08 GMT, Dave Oldridge
wrote:

"Woody" wrote in
news:%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08:

Well there ya have it folks.... 50wpm saves lives. So how does it
work? Turn up the speaker really loud and place it [face down] on
the person's chest, while
an op in South America tapped out universally accepted words that
would mimic an atrioventricular rhythm?

Did someone drop you on your head at birth?
wy wouldyou ask that did someone drop you on yours?

No, but when I'm confronted with TOTAL stupidity, it's a possible
explanotion for it.

The reason 50wpm can save
lives is probably a bit complex for you to get both your functioning
neurons around, but believe me, having done CW for a living for some
decades I do know that it can save lives.
a date when was the last Ham Morse saved a life at any speed

car and drive down to the local EMS agency, and bring them to you.
Life saved!
I'm impressed.
rb

So apparently YOUR answer to this question is that you couldn't send
your name if your own life depended on it.

I can send anything I like the proof of that is before you I have a pc

Believe me, I get it. I don't think CW ought to be mandatory and it
isn't where I live.
good for you
I do think people who intend to use it should learn
how to use it properly, though. For CW to be effective, both
operators must be competent. IF they are, they can often transcend
barriers of language that only digital modes can get over. In my own
case, the fact that I could read CW and read written Spanish a bit
once enabled me to render aid to a burning fishing boat. (There were
other more routine examples of where the language barrier was crossed
by CW--many messages I copied were not in English at all, but were
readable by their end recipients).
ok you have a date for that I'll accept it as a life saved by CW if
you do
http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/

Not an exact date, though it's probably in the archives of the Canadian
Coast Guard, my employer at the time. Hey, I worked at Halifax Coast
Guard radio from 1977 until 1995, 18 years at the one station. We
handled a number of SOS calls on CW and were able to save lives some of
the time (not always. alas). But with trained operators on both ends of
the signal path, CW was pretty much always an easier go than SSB. And
SITOR was pretty much a joke. Half the ships couldn't get it going.

INMARSAT is what put CW out of business in the marine industry. And a
nasty solar flare or two could put INMARSAT out of business. You pays
your money and you takes your chances. I'm not sure that a ship equipped
with a complex satellite radio with a lot of moving parts and a
technician is all that much better off than a ship was when they were
equipped with an MF-HF CW and SSB radio station and a radio operator who
was also a trained technician. All is well until something breaks and
the nearest part is 500 miles away over water.


CW was still in use for a some ship-to-shore work when I retired in 1995.

When I went to the high arctic in 1964 it was our main means of
communication with the south. We eventually converted that to RTTY and
SSB, but neither was really as effective as the CW that preceded.

Now, today, we have such things a PSK31 to do much of the grunt work.
That will work as well as CW in most cases, I find.

--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667

"Woody" wrote in news:1o2Hg.19713$Te.3938@trnddc07:


"Dave Oldridge" wrote in message
9...
"Woody" wrote in
news:%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08:

Did someone drop you on your head at birth? The reason 50wpm can
save lives is probably a bit complex for you to get both your
functioning neurons around, but believe me, having done CW for a
living for some decades I do know that it can save lives. And if
you're faster than the average bear at it, you can tell someone on
the scene things they need to know all that much faster.


Possibly, because try as I might, I can't really remember much about
that day.... I had pyloric stenosis, if that counts?

So apparently YOUR answer to this question is that you couldn't send
your name if your own life depended on it.

Now that's true... I'd require a CW setup of some kind in order to
send my name; or anything else for that matter.
Or as previously pointed out, hack up a headphone jack and tippy tap
the wires together. Either way, I don't see my life depending on it at
any time, so I'll just let my CW skills continue to rust.
However; your argument does make me wonder how non-hams even have a
chance at life in this world... ??


Believe me, I get it. I don't think CW ought to be mandatory and it
isn't where I live. I do think people who intend to use it should
learn how to use it properly, though. For CW to be effective, both
operators must be competent. IF they are, they can often transcend
barriers of language that only digital modes can get over. In my own
case, the fact that I could read CW and read written Spanish a bit
once enabled me to render aid to a burning fishing boat. (There were
other more routine examples of where the language barrier was crossed
by CW--many messages I copied were not in English at all, but were
readable by their end recipients).

OK.... so by your own words, CW still didn't save a life... CW mixed
with bad Spanish passed a message. So now we'll have to add a Spanish
test. Thanks a lot.

My point is, my bad Spanish might not have recognized the word "fuego" if
it was spoken fast among a lot of other words. But on CW it came across
loud and clear.

As for the language thing.... I can copy voice language and hand it
off to another native just as easy and they'll figure it out too.
No CW necessary.

Except you'll be a lot slower because you'll need phonetic spellings for
everything. Believe me, I know. I've done this. For a living for many
years.

BTW, I noticed you conveniently left out the specific year in which
said burning boat was offshore with an obsolete CW outfit, and how
your CW expertise put out a fire.... but I'm guessing we're talking
many a year ago, so again, a moot point.

Not that long ago, really. Early 1990's if I remember.

Actually,
The boat thing in general is really killing me... If these numb-nuts
are offshore and not on the correct USCG freqs and/or unaware of how
to properly tune their radios in an emergency, then it isn't CW saving
lives, it's the grace of God that somebody happened to be on their
freq at that time. But again, what boats are out there with a CW
rig???? That's crazy, bubba. :-) rb

This was on 500khz (and 484). CW was the mode of operation on those
frequencies until well into the 90's. Cheap SSB radios were plentiful.
So were some SITOR lashups. But what finally killed it was INMARSAT.

So now, instead of getting nailed by solar flares on HF, you get nailed
by them on INMARSAT and have to wait 6 to 9 months for a new launch.
Meanwhile you're limping along on SSB using a phonetic alphabet to send
traffic at a SLOWER rate.

--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667

On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 19:54:37 GMT, "Woody" wrote:

"Dave Oldridge" wrote in message
59...
For CW to be effective, both operators
must be competent. IF they are, they can often transcend barriers of
language that only digital modes can get over. In my own case, the fact
that I could read CW and read written Spanish a bit once enabled me to
render aid to a burning fishing boat. (There were other more routine
examples of where the language barrier was crossed by CW--many messages I
copied were not in English at all, but were readable by their end
recipients).

OK.... so by your own words, CW still didn't save a life... CW mixed with
bad Spanish passed a message. So now we'll have to add a Spanish test.
Thanks a lot.

I think you missed the point. Even if you didn't know "ola" from
"adios", you can copy Spanish in CW and hand it to the recipient, who
can read it. Try that with a mic.

As for the language thing.... I can copy voice language and hand it off to
another native just as easy and they'll figure it out too.
No CW necessary.

Really? You can write a spoken language you don't understand well
enough to be read by someone who understands it? Maybe. Maybe not.
In CW, you can.

"Dave Oldridge" wrote in message
. ..

[snip]


Now, today, we have such things a PSK31 to do much of the grunt work.
That will work as well as CW in most cases, I find.


Don't forget thought that solar flares and especially the aurora they create
induce a phase shift in signals and that wipes out PSK31.

Dee, N8UZE

Al Klein wrote:
On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 19:54:37 GMT, "Woody" wrote:

"Dave Oldridge" wrote in message
59...
For CW to be effective, both operators
must be competent. IF they are, they can often transcend barriers of
language that only digital modes can get over. In my own case, the fact
that I could read CW and read written Spanish a bit once enabled me to
render aid to a burning fishing boat. (There were other more routine
examples of where the language barrier was crossed by CW--many messages I
copied were not in English at all, but were readable by their end
recipients).

OK.... so by your own words, CW still didn't save a life... CW mixed with
bad Spanish passed a message. So now we'll have to add a Spanish test.
Thanks a lot.

I think you missed the point. Even if you didn't know "ola" from
"adios", you can copy Spanish in CW and hand it to the recipient, who
can read it. Try that with a mic.
I do that firaly well as long as it is a a langauge fro gruop I know I
can take down serbian in crylllic even though I don't what they are
saying it is simply a skill For that matter I hear and resend Morse as
long as I don't try to decipher it

As for the language thing.... I can copy voice language and hand it off to
another native just as easy and they'll figure it out too.
No CW necessary.

Really? You can write a spoken language you don't understand well
enough to be read by someone who understands it? Maybe. Maybe not.
In CW, you can.

YOU can and you then claim that you have that skill it is valid

your values in the ARS refuse to accept that notion different strokes
for different folks

If instead of CW testng we had a choice a various tests to take that
would stand muster the current value Morse well outside of it value
withut even realy testing its abilty to do a QSO were the test based
sending and receiveing where the receiveing could send bak pse senf all
after ... and before what then take a test to show that he was able to
comincate the test would have more vailiity but it doesn't the CW tests
do noy even show that the testee can use CW over the air